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apples13
05-15-2012, 12:05 AM
http://manga.about.com/b/2012/05/13/making-a-living-in-manga-9-reasons-why-the-u-s-manga-making-biz-is-broken.htm

ClockHand
05-15-2012, 12:20 AM
With the subject of "people are not reading their own country "manga"". I have always thought that kids who want to do "mangas" have a very narrowed view of the medium, and obviously are not so immersed in it.

One of my biggest problem is people doing the distinction of manga and comic. If you are a illustrator or a storyteller, the distinction doesn't mater, making a comic will be as gratification as doing a manga, because what you care is telling the story, not the name your medium have. It's like a film maker carrying more about doing Hollywood movies, than just doing movies he feel proud of. And so, as people having the dream of "making a manga" need to grow up, so the audience will grow up, and they are going to enjoy a story for what it is, and not for what is denominated.

Then with trying to be japanese. That's kinda the same, you are just making a filtrated imitation of an already filtrated art style. It lack in many things and it easy to see why people might dislike it. I can say that plenty of those art style are very hard to disgust for me. But there are others who do a good job. Don't know, it also has to be with the audience, there are too many assweabos.

Bacon_Barbarian
05-15-2012, 12:25 AM
Clock did you even read the article. It's talking about OEL and manga influence. Manga are a types of comics, but there is a distinction, and that's the style and the formatting. Setting it in japan and making it all wapanese is just bad storytelling (well, usually) that, unfortunately, you're only going to find in manga influenced work.

ClockHand
05-15-2012, 12:28 AM
I have never had the distinctions of manga and comic very clear, to be fair, there are older comics that fit the "manga rules", while there are mangas that fit the comic rules. So I really don't know their distinction.

Now, please explain it to me in a way that they don't cross each other.

Bacon_Barbarian
05-15-2012, 12:33 AM
There are some pretty self-evident style differences, obviously. You don't see tone used the same way in DC as you do in SJ. And then the whole formatting thing, which, in it's own way, plays into style. Being read right to left, yadda, yadda. There's also the approach. Western comics are almost all aimed at teenage boys to young adult men. You don't see western comics aimed at little girls, or, not serious comics, anyway.

And then your going to have manga-influenced comics which are going to take (hopefully) the best of both. Just read the article. What you addressed in your first post isn't even really what the article's about.

ClockHand
05-15-2012, 12:51 AM
The article is about why wester mangas industry fails. And I just posted my opinions in some problems with it.

Also you are comparing DC shading with SJ shading, which mean you are narrowing western comics to just DC and Marvel, without knowing there are comics like L'Écho des savanes, Blueberry, Thorgal, Titkok bolygója, Nyakék és az őr (which remains me a lot of Ito Junji, who is a mangaka) and El Eternauta, all this comics are older than 1980, and they challenge what comic books are, they cross the line between how people have defined mangas and comics. The only difference, is that one is read from left to right and the other from right to left, and for me, that is not really a substantial difference in the medium.

And if you tell me that manga is a about moe girls and that's the "art style" of mangas. Then you have artist like Junji Ito, Nihei, Urasawa, etc. who challenge that idea that mangas are moe girls or there is a defined style. And I also disagree with you that comics don't try to reach womans, there are and have been comics made for womans.

Bacon_Barbarian
05-15-2012, 12:57 AM
You were the one who mentioned "their [sic] own country 'manga'" and seeing as how I am an America, yeah, DC and Marvel would be my countries manga. Or, at least, the mainstream. I can name some less well known ones that I enjoy, but that's not the point.

I am not saying manga is one particular style, (or did not mean to) but that main stream manga incorporates multiple, very different styles. Which you really don't get in the west. Or in the US at least. And yes, there have been western comics aimed at women, but they are few and far between and much less common than eastern ones.

ClockHand
05-15-2012, 01:04 AM
I mentioned in the whole "fake" vs "original" discussion, which for me is stupid. It's like not reading a comic because its indie.

The thing is that I have this feeling that, when people mention western comics, everyone thinks in marvel and dc, like there is no way there could be anything else.

And again, for my mangas and comics are the same, they are the same medium, same narrative methods, same techniques, same structure in narration, etc. There is not a real substantial difference between both.

Bacon_Barbarian
05-15-2012, 01:07 AM
Well, I agree with that first statement.

And style isn't a substantial difference?

ClockHand
05-15-2012, 01:11 AM
It would, but it hardly is if the style is constantly challenged by artist in the different sides.

Bacon_Barbarian
05-15-2012, 01:14 AM
I'm not quite sure I follow you...

ClockHand
05-15-2012, 01:19 AM
If you tell me that Manga have a certain style with its own elements, and doesn't follow other "schools" of styles, then I would agree, but, then its mean that you can prove that they don't pass to those other schools, and neither those other schools pass to the style of "manga" and still keeping its name. If a manga artist do a manga with the elements of that other school, it would still be named manga, which mean the style is not what determines the object. And if you, try to do a manga, using its style, and still is not called manga, then manga is still not defined by its style.

jubeh
05-15-2012, 02:31 AM
Oh man you guys remember ninja high school