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Regantor
04-20-2012, 07:05 PM
Reg doesn't agree with that "Anime has always been mostly rubbish" thing going around. I mean, I always try to give a totaly fair review when I recommend stuff and point out it's flaws, but seriously...

Exactly when did Disney or any other western studio make something even slightly resembling any of these semi-to-not obscure bad boys?

(Cowboy Bebop)
http://kairu90.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/20040109-cowboy-bebopjpg.jpeg
(Macross Plus)
http://www.scenicreflections.com/ithumbs/Macross_Plus_Wallpaper__yvt2.jpg
(New Dominon Tank Police)
http://cdn.myanimelist.net/images/anime/12/18703.jpg
(Bubblegum Crisis)
http://www.lordgothmog.net/crisis-d.jpg
(Votoms)
http://gallery.spoofedpacket.net/misc-images/votoms-poster.jpg
(Generator Gawl)
http://www.homemademech.com/Uploads/Areview/covers/55c.jpg
(Blue Submarine No.6)
http://www.animepalm.com/series-images/blue-submarine-no-6-english-dubbed.jpg
(Dragon's Haven)
http://www.anime-link.com/penciltablets/pen03.jpg

Just because Manga entertainment decided they wanted to go on an uber-cheap post-Akira gore rush does not mean that is all that was out there at the time.

Gaff
04-20-2012, 07:21 PM
My avatar probably betrays my thoughts on the subject, but the original Dominion OAV holds a special place in my heart. It's like Blade Runner, except with tanks. And knob gags.

Regantor
04-20-2012, 07:26 PM
lol. Well the other Dominion OAV did have that bitchin' metal intro, too. Amusingly enough, I actually think it resembles the GITS manga way more than Stand Alone Complex does.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtAdLocmmNM

Gaff
04-20-2012, 07:36 PM
Heh, yeah - I think you're preaching to the converted here man, I even bought the OST.

I have a lot of time for New Dominion, but I did miss the more post-apocalyptic vibe from the original OAV. I thought it was quite an interesting contrast in that, even when the world is screwed, people will still make jokes about phallic-shaped tank traps...

ClockHand
04-20-2012, 07:43 PM
bubble gum crisis is considered a classic?

Regantor
04-20-2012, 07:46 PM
Don't mind me, I got it, just wasn't gonna have another chance to post that...

As for old Dominion, yeah, I do think the humour was better. Slapstick with bazookas. The gas thing was a really original element, too. Perhaps if that weird-ass ending wasn't so out of the blue, through... You have to wonder how much further it could have gotten.

Clock; The original OAV is. Tokyo 2030 can go chew a dog's leg. Keep in mind how related it is to AD Police and Genocyber before jumping to super sentai conclusions, too.

ClockHand
04-20-2012, 07:51 PM
I have no idea what means "can go chew a dog's leg". But yeah, apparently it can be considered a classic.

Gaff
04-20-2012, 07:58 PM
I think this is entirely relevant to the conversation.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCDSI2jBkk8

That solo at the end...

jubeh
04-20-2012, 09:25 PM
Exactly when did Disney or any other western studio make something even slightly resembling any of these semi-to-not obscure bad boys?

What does this even mean. Are you saying that just because we can't make anything better anime isn't bad? I'm not saying any of this is bad its just a shitty argument is all.

CypressDahlia
04-20-2012, 09:32 PM
Well when you talk about entertainment it only makes sense to make comparisons relative to other available entertainment, so I wouldn't say it's a bad argument at all. I mean, if you're going, "Well it's better than everything else but it's still not as good as I personally WANT it to be" that's not really a fair way to review anything. That's not unlike saying "everything sucks".

jubeh
04-20-2012, 09:35 PM
If something is bad, its still bad regardless of how much better it is than the alternatives. Its like saying diarrhea is cool because its better than constipation.

CypressDahlia
04-20-2012, 09:39 PM
Diarrhea is only bad because we know what it's like to not have diarrhea (that sounds really friggin silly but it makes a point). There is a "good" alternative, you see what I'm saying? If there is no "good" alternative to anime as entertainment, how can anyone make that comparison?

basically it'll just boil down to people asking for anime to be perfect in their own personal ways, because if you're not using real alternatives, what other measure do you use? Perfection? If that's the case everything might as well be crap.

EDIT: of course, I'm not saying nothing is better than anime. I'm just saying there needs to be real things to compare something to to evaluate how good or bad it is.

Regantor
04-20-2012, 10:15 PM
I was actually just trying to say that the idea that "anime has always had a larger proportion of shite series than most other media" is bull, like Kodos and a few other people were saying before. Western animators aren't even neccisarly worse, but there is a really massive ammount of brilliant anime out there that never gets a second look-in, thus possibly skewing people's opinions. It's the kind of stuff which would just never get funding outside of japan, to boot.

Was trying to keep it short 'cause I know I have a tendency to babble is all, sorry. >_>

Sylux
04-20-2012, 10:48 PM
WHERE THE FUCK IS GITS IN OP

CypressDahlia
04-20-2012, 10:53 PM
Cultural differences probably play a lot into it. Western television is known for taking itself far too seriously and anime often times does not take itself seriously enough, so people think it's "childish".

jubeh
04-20-2012, 11:26 PM
Cype: Yeah but that's not whats happening here. As far as writing and animation goes we have a lot to compare anime to.

Anyway I dont watch much anime but I read a metric buttload of manga and I can say with utmost confidence that the vast majority is shit, but that's fine because in a weird way the stuff that is good tends to be really good.

I'm afraid to list any anime I watched when I was younger in fear that it doesn't hold up. Off the top of my head I was seriously in love with ira and armitage the third.

CypressDahlia
04-20-2012, 11:39 PM
Cype: Yeah but that's not whats happening here. As far as writing and animation goes we have a lot to compare anime to.

I agree. TBH, I experienced most of the best writing and screenplay, animation, etc. I've ever seen in video games, not anime or movies. but the argument itself is not bad, is what I was saying.

Regantor
04-23-2012, 02:02 PM
:I

I really hope at least one of you picked up on the fact that I clearified such a thing wasn't the arguement I was making at all.


I was actually just trying to say that the idea that "anime has always had a larger proportion of shite series than most other media" is bull, like Kodos and a few other people were saying before.

Anime does have an extremely poor standard these days, but I felt obliged to make this thread because it wasn't as if everything people like about it is pure nostalgia. Anime used to go places that american animation still dares to tread even nowadays, and that's why it's still worthwhile even if you just like the oldies.

What I am definately not saying is that western comics are purely rubbish in comparision. I have shelves lined with Jean Giraud (Moebius), Brian Wood, and Frank Miller. I used to watch Cyber Six, the Tick, and the Batman animation all the time...

But there is just a certain point when you can't help but feel a little insulted when somebody says anime always had a higher percentage of shit than american stuff, yet if you scratch just past the surface, and take two series of similar themes and niches from the same era you basically end up with this more often than not;

(West) (Battletech. Yes, this was popular. I liked it when I was a kid. :P)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-_-8D8R4CU

(East) (Armoured Hunter Mellowlink.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyUkeXEnSzQ

Kodos
04-24-2012, 07:01 AM
Generally, I'll side with Sturgeon's Law; 90% of anything and everything is shit.

The reason anime today seems to have such a higher rate of crap to not-crap, I think, probably just has less to do with the actual ratio changing, and more to do with the fact more anime gets localized or otherwise brought to the attention of Western audiences, and because more anime, in total, is being made (I think?).

jubeh
04-24-2012, 02:39 PM
That reasoning would have been fine before fan translations became such a big thing but now I can find translations of really obscure stuff as well as popular stuff.