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View Full Version : Mass Effect 3 Ending Opinions?



Zekester014
03-12-2012, 01:30 AM
To give a little personal history, I haven't played bioware games for long. In fact, I only got ME2 and DA series about a year ago, give or take a few months. but I was hooked, nonetheless. I had hope for ME3 and it's supposed awesomeness. I wasn't even disappointed in DA2, and that shows that I can tolerate a lot in a game. but the ending for MA3... Pure Betrayal from Bioware, tbh.

Don't get me wrong, the game itself was great, totally lived up to the series. but the ending choices, or rather, the lack thereof, was a crushing blow. I felt like a little kid that got his favorite toy run over by a semi. currently, there's a series of petitions and meetings of loyal BW fans that are rallying together to combat this... I guess you could call it a monstrosity... and I'm supporting them and the cause: get BW's attention and convince them to make a better ending, or at least, ADD one.

Other people's opinions may differ, but to me, the choices all ended the same way; as if nothing you worked for up to this point mattered in the long run.

At this point, I'd pay for a dlc to get a happier ending that my full on paragon Shepard deserves. Also, Frankly, to put it bluntly...

I WANT MY TALI!!

I know there were some here that were looking forward to ME3 (Specific example, GunZet), but I'm sorry to say, if you haven't already finished it, There's a BIG chance you'll be disappointed, to say the least.

Okay, short rant over. continue.

jubeh
03-12-2012, 02:37 AM
Use spoiler tags for spoilers anyone posting in this thread

GunZet
03-12-2012, 03:07 AM
I've heard the ending is quite shit too. But as long as I get a good amount of good gameplay and story, I'm perfectly fine with the end sucking ass. Afterall, I'm playing both ME1 and ME3 at the same time, then I might do another runthrough of ME2 after ME1.... damn.

Oh yea, so far so epic with ME3. Though a few dialogue options are balls/ don't exist.

Im_not_random
03-12-2012, 11:12 AM
Heavy spoilers below



I generally enjoyed the game up til the end, but yeah.. The final half hour kinda left me with mixed feelings.

I think the problem is that instead of pandering to fans, Bioware did their own thing. Usually I'd think trying not to pander was likely the better move, but given the emotional attachment people will have to their Shepards by this point anything less than a happy ending was going to give that favourite toy just run over effect Zekester mentions above.

I mean, as Shepard you've basically been fighting the inevitable, trying to overcome fate, but when you face the source of that fate you are forced to comply with the options it presents you. All of them being varying levels of bleak.

The God Child's whole argument is flawed though, in my play through Joker and Edi became a thing and the Quarians / Geth allies - suggesting that the created will not always rebel against the creator. It's also ironic that the solution to this problem is to kill off organic life before they can create self aware AI - with self aware AI.

There was clearly potential for Shepard to give one to the God Child, but we weren't ever allowed to, and had to accept fate - as mentioned, what we've all been essentially fighting against. There's a few plotholes in the ending also and pretty grave points that aren't covered or explained. I don't think they're as much of a problem.

I feel if they offered more choices everyone would be ok - I mean, one or two 'good' endings where Shep lives and all is happy, available by doing amazingly thought all three games, with another one available by doing 'ok' but potentially resulting in Shep's death, then the 'bad' ending where Earth goes up in Flames, Shep dies etc would have been good. Even then perhaps add a bittersweet ending where you did bad, but if Shep gives up his/her life you can still save everyone else.

Dunno, my opinion really. I do think Bioware shouldn't have forced the Martyr status on Shep though, the whole thing is just a bit too self indulgent. Maybe played the martyrdom card too often - Mordrin, Kirrahe/Thane, Legion ( or Tali... But that's more plain suicide.. ). There was a bit of a theme where characters sacrificed themselves to varying degrees of glorification. ( edit - Also Cortez, although I'm pretty sure Cortez intended to keep living )

Other than that, I did notice the lack of 'roleplay' in the game - most choices were either paragon response or renegade response, with no neutral ground. Plus I feel I'm wrong but still, it did seem that the Illusive Man got half of the persuade / threaten lines, with a good run of those squeezed into the last 10ish mins. I can understand that there was a lot to get through and a tonne of loose ends to tie up, but still.. I wonder if we could have got the chance to debate the point with the God Child if we were still playing by ME1 writing agendas.

The game was good though, overall. Few polish issues but nothing game breaking.

But as always, just my opinions :p not thinking objectively, of course.

Sylux
03-12-2012, 03:42 PM
ATTENTION CUSTOMERS: SHEPARD IS A REAPER
Dragon Age 2 was creepy and so was Mass Effect 3
Also Renegade Femshep is the only way to play

apples13
03-12-2012, 07:18 PM
The endings are all stupid and disappointing

Sylux
03-12-2012, 09:05 PM
Thank you quite frankly I hate the game it's sad and makes me wish I'd changed my title to StarCon2-Dude or Chrono-man rather than frakking disappointing Ass Defect 3.

GunZet
03-12-2012, 11:10 PM
You are not a true fan, leave this place heretic.

Kodos
03-12-2012, 11:15 PM
Thank you quite frankly I hate the game it's sad and makes me wish I'd changed my title to StarCon2-Dude or Chrono-man rather than frakking disappointing Ass Defect 3.
Change it to Hunam or *Camper*.

EDIT: The only thing I like about ME3 is that they got the Faunts back for the credits again.

Zekester014
03-13-2012, 01:53 AM
Have you finished it yet, GunZet?

GunZet
03-13-2012, 02:29 AM
Nahh, The game has barely been out for a week, and I sorta... don't have that amount of free time? Lol.

But so far I'm enjoying it. Way I see it, I'd rather have a helluva ride to a bad ending, than a terrible 30+ hour trek to find ten minutes worth of gold.

Sylux
03-13-2012, 06:24 AM
You are not a true fan, leave this place heretic.

No I'm the truest fan because I'm so disappointed in how it webt to shit. I've beaten ME1 18 times and ME2 6 times. Why the fuck would they do this to me, the loyalest fan?

GunZet
03-13-2012, 06:34 AM
This is a great game, bruh, I seriously don't see where people are getting all this hate from besides the DLC controversy, picking on the story, the sucky ass ending, funky dialogues, blahblahblah etc. etc.
It's like "you'll never find a more hateful person than a fan of something."
And I'm not even defending it just to defend it. I'm defending it cause it's getting an unnecessary amount of shit thrown at it. Imo gaiz, GAIZ, OMG, GAIZ. And yes, I acknowledge there are some BIG issues, but not game destroying, then again I put up with a lot.

Sylux
03-13-2012, 01:43 PM
Yeah no the story makes or breaks the game. ME2 wasn't as good as ME1 story-wise, hence I have over double the runthroughs as ME2. I play the original Halo more than 3. I play MGS3 more than MGS4 because of the story and theming. Same with RE4 vs. RE5, and DAO vs. DA2.

GunZet
03-13-2012, 01:56 PM
I've heard more more complaints about the ending (from literally everywhere, Steam, Amazon, Kotaku, Bioware forums, SBC, MT, Metacritic, dflksa;fjkas;j), and other minor issues rather than the overall story itself. Seems people can't make up their minds on what to hate. *shrugs* Different strokes for different folks, fuckin' love this game :cat_whirly:

Kodos
03-13-2012, 02:36 PM
The storyline of Mass Effect has been entirely built around the conclusion of the story. The story is plot driven, not character driven. The nature of the Reapers and the resolution of the threat they pose are two facets of the story that can make or break the story, and in both cases Bioware dropped the ball and they dropped it fucking hard.

Granted, they kind of fucked up big time in 2, also. The moment you killed a Reaper with a pistol is the moment the Reapers ceased to be an effective threat.

EDIT: The creepy issues regarding sexism and Bioware being creepers turned me off ME3 very, very, very strongly, but ultimately it was how badly they handled the story and how meaningless they rendered all your choices that ultimately made me give up entirely on the series. ME1 is one of my favorite games ever and I really, really, really fucking loved the setting, and I really enjoyed 2, also. I have very high standards, you could argue, but ME1 and to a lesser extent 2 met them.

The fact so many fans of the series are complaining - and that they are able to articulate their complaints intelligently and point out what exactly the problems are - says something. This isn't just a case of fans being beyond pleasing. Bioware fucked up, and due to the diseased culture and ethos they have within their company, they are only going to continue fucking up until people stop buying their games enough that hacks like Hepler are fired and Bioware examine what the fuck makes a good game.

GunZet
03-13-2012, 02:41 PM
When I first met Miranda, they had the camera zoom in on her ass as she walked... That was kinda pitiful :/

Kodos
03-13-2012, 02:48 PM
Nothing is as egregious as Shepherd's magical cock healing Jack of psychological trauma via a good fucking.

Although I do think a lot of things in ME3 come close. Particularly something about Tali.

GunZet
03-13-2012, 03:08 PM
Guess the only reason I'm not sitting in the hatebooth is because I'm probably the only person here that has been looking at the ME games more from a critical gameplay stance, lol.

T1B3R1U5
03-13-2012, 03:31 PM
I'm actually pretty ok with the ending of the game. I just beat it last...uh...shit. I can't remember. It was like two or three days ago. Anyways, they could've done better on things I agree. But seriously, I can play the most crappy game on the planet and still say it has SOME value. But then again, thats just meh :/

Kodos
03-13-2012, 09:41 PM
Guess the only reason I'm not sitting in the hatebooth is because I'm probably the only person here that has been looking at the ME games more from a critical gameplay stance, lol.
The gameplay of ME is fine, but it is not fine enough to carry the series on its own. It's like saying Final Fantasy X is the best Final Fantasy because you like the battle system the most. Neither FFX nor any of the Mass Effects have gameplay strong enough to carry the game on its own, especially when one considers the existence of other shooters that do what ME does and do it better.

Besides, remember the inane comments made by Bioware and Hepler. The company absolutely believes that gameplay is not only unimportant, but something that should be eliminated, and feel that their storytelling is their greatest single strength as a company.

Also remember that player choice is a big part of gameplay, and each game has made that matter less and less.

GunZet
03-13-2012, 09:51 PM
True, true. I forgot they actually give you options before you even start the game to choose whether you want to dumb down the gameplay (story-wise, or action-wise) or not, then saying it's basically for personal preference. Is there any other way to play an ME game but RPG?

ClockHand
03-13-2012, 09:52 PM
Wait, they believe their strong points is storytelling? WAT?!

Sylux
03-13-2012, 10:00 PM
Yeh lol more like the sex (Jack magic) drugz (Red Sand) and rock n roll baby yeah (The Faunts)

GunZet
03-13-2012, 10:02 PM
I'm curious to see how all of these people saying it's a horrible story would reiterate it themselves. I'm no author, so I'm just curious. The story is enough to carry the series along to me. I'm more of an atmosphere guy when it comes to games like this, and they aced the feeling of being in a giant populated galaxy, but the story. I don't know, what would you guys change/add?

Kodos
03-13-2012, 10:04 PM
Wait, they believe their strong points is storytelling? WAT?!
Bioware is fucked in every way. It's a company culture.

Basically Bioware thinks they are Obsidian. They're not.

The misogynistic and hyperbolic language directed at Hepler was disgusting, and I feel bad for her to that extent, but the woman really is a complete and total idiot, and a big (no, that's not a reference to her weight) sign of everything wrong with the company. The woman has no business doing anything involved with videogames, and given how shitty a writer she is, she really has no business writing anything either.

And the same is true of most of Bioware these days. Hepler is their Nomura. She's a massive sign of all that's wrong, and the most egregious example of it, but she is not the sole cause or the sole symptom of what's wrong. Firing her would be a good thing and a step towards improving, but really Bioware needs to sack most of their writing and planning staff at this point.

Except whoever wrote Mordin. They can stay.

EDIT: The fact Bioware has steadily gotten more and more creepy ever since Jade Empire which, as much as I love it, was problematic in its own ways, is a sign of how big and serious the issue is. This isn't the result of some charismatic new employee coming in and swaying the others to their way of thinking, or of executive oversight. This is the result of a diseased corporate culture and attitude that has been festering in the company since the early middle part of the last decade.

Outcast
03-13-2012, 10:21 PM
So, I guess I wasn't paying attention, what was the "creepy" bits.

Kodos
03-13-2012, 10:34 PM
Pick just about any scene involving a woman in just about any capacity. There you go.

I'm too tired to go into detail now but, really, most of it isn't even that subtle. Bioware's writers have serious issues with women and sexuality and these issues have just gotten worse and worse with every single game since Jade Empire - which is where it all began. It seems like as soon as Lucasarts and WOTC let them off their leash that Bioware immediately began a death spiral into creepy harem fanfiction territory.

EDIT: Again, though, as I said before. Healing Jack's mental issues with Shepherd's magical dick. All a woman with serious mental issues needs to feel better is for a man to fuck her.

This is Victorian England level shit.

GunZet
03-13-2012, 10:39 PM
So, I guess I wasn't paying attention, what was the "creepy" bits.

Jacob, sex with Tali, and Miranda's chin.
Oh, and Joker and Edi.

Outcast
03-13-2012, 10:53 PM
Don't get it.

Kodos
03-14-2012, 12:02 AM
Also the fact that most of the people Shep fucks are his/her subordinates and thus it's a creepy power dynamic. Also the madonna/whore complex. The equation of sex with love. And there's more.

I think the worst part about Tali is
You never see her face. You get to see her nice body thanks to how form-fitting the Quarian suit is, but we never see her face. We never see the face of our supposed lover. You know what sort of people tend to fantasize about women without caring about their face? Sexual fucking predators. It's really creepy that the game lets you fuck a literally faceless woman.

jubeh
03-14-2012, 12:11 AM
http://i.imgur.com/KnMkk.jpg

GunZet
03-14-2012, 12:12 AM
^LoL'D

Wellll, not necessarily faceless, considering Sheperd sees it, just not the player. I think it's good for her character that they left Tali in a mask, cause the other wimminz are just overly sexualized. Maybe except Liara, but definitely Samara and Morinth, and oh, the rest of the Asari race. I also don't really dig Tali's body, those hips, and the two fingers, ehhhhh. Might as well just bang a Geth.

Not to mention she pretty much dies if she takes her mask off :/

ClockHand
03-14-2012, 12:21 AM
Lol, the point is that the player doesn't see the face, Sheperd doesn't mater because he is just a bridge or a vehicle for the player fantasies. And about Tali; she doesn't have a face and you fuck her, making the relationship a masturbation using a human person (as kodo said, sexual predators, but Its mostly someone who doesn't care about sex, but rather his/her own satisfaction).

GunZet
03-14-2012, 12:24 AM
I -know- that, Clock. But to compare that with a sexual predator is a bit far-fetched, unless the player is well... a sexual predator. Though having sex with a faceless alien isn't quite necessary either. I assume they just tossed it in there because Tali has a nice... little... fanbase... And ME2 was all about the sex before Omega4 anyway.

Kodos
03-14-2012, 12:35 AM
^LoL'D

Wellll, not necessarily faceless, considering Sheperd sees it, just not the player.
Clock answered this. The player is what matters.


I think it's good for her character that they left Tali in a mask, cause the other wimminz are just overly sexualized.
Tali has an attractive body and a sexy accent. She's just as sexualized. The only difference is we don't see her fucking face.

The only other thing we don't see is female aliens, because Bioware only cares about women if they are sex objects.


Maybe except Liara, but definitely Samara and Morinth, and oh, the rest of the Asari race.
Liara is sexualized. She's the vulnerable sexy nerd archetype. It's part of their Madonna/Whore complex. But they got better in 2 and I understand 3. I'll give them that. But in 1 she was entirely Nice Guy fetish fuel. "I'm a sweet innocent girl. NOT LIKE ALL THOSE OTHER ASARI SLUTS AND WHORES!"


I also don't really dig Tali's body, those hips, and the two fingers, ehhhhh. Might as well just bang a Geth.
It's not like the boards at Bioware have literally done chemical analysis and come to the conclusion that Tali's sweat would be healthy to eat. I am not lying. These are Bioware fans. This is the culture they seek to pander to.


Not to mention she pretty much dies if she takes her mask off :/
But you can fuck her no problem! Because sex is romance! You know what would have been really good? Let the player romance Tali, but never fuck her. Show that, hey - guess what - some adults can have romantic relationships that don't involve sex. Many people can't, but Shepherd and Tali are heroes - they are already doing things many people can't.
This also would have been a good thing to do with EDI.


I -know- that, Clock. But to compare that with a sexual predator is a bit far-fetched, unless the player is well... a sexual predator. Though having sex with a faceless alien isn't quite necessary either. I assume they just tossed it in there because Tali has a nice... little... fanbase... And ME2 was all about the sex before Omega4 anyway.
Humans associate faces with personhood. That's why so many sexually motivated serial killers target victims faces. That's why Alien has a theme of damaging faces. That's why hordes of badguys wear helmets and shit in fiction. It makes us stop seeing them as people. By never showing us Tali's face they turn her into nothing more than a blatantly obvious sex object. She's not a person, obviously, but she's not even a character anymore. She's just boobs, a lovely pair of hips, and something for Shepherd to fuck.

And that's without getting into other creepy aspects.

Look, you can like the game. You can like problematic things. I do. Everyone does. But don't pretend like these creepy and dangerous attitudes are not there. They are. The gaming industry as a whole has serious issues with women and sexuality, and Bioware in particular stands out as a notably egregious offender.

GunZet
03-14-2012, 12:45 AM
Tali just... wasn't attractive to me. Cute, but not attractive in a sexual sense, nevertheless I hit that. I also don't think you actually had sex with Jack, but instead just cuddled around if I recall, unless I'm missing something about that fade to black screen. I do get what you're saying though.

edit: oh god, don't tell me you think Chakwas or Eve has bangin' curves too DD:

ClockHand
03-14-2012, 12:53 AM
Is not just a problem with woman and sex, is a problem with every human emotion or psychology status. Games want to pretend to be story wise, but they are unable to threat any of the stories in a mature level, that's why when they do a game that is involved with sex, it become a power-harem situation; when its about war, is about empowering players and make them badass; when there is a woman, to make it an object for ourselves; and when is about violence or gunshot, make all character cold blood killers (again badass/cool). So video games are about our fantasies, better say, are about a gluttony of our fantasies. We don't just want the harem-power situation, we want to be cool, bad ass, we want to be empowered, we want others to be weaker, we want to have the first and last word in any discussion and we want to achieve success in any mean. Video games are our masturbation, our wet dreams when we talk about story (and some times mechanics).

There is nothing wrong about this, there is nothing wrong to satisfy our fantasies, but this is why video games are unable to take any real emotional subject in a mature way. Reason why we might never see a Apocalypse Now or Psycho video game, because those are not about please ourself, but rather to find ourself through our fantasies.

Zekester014
03-14-2012, 01:01 AM
Maybe I forgot, but how do you place everything in a "spoiler tag"?

Kodos
03-14-2012, 01:02 AM
Someone's never played Planescape Torment.

GunZet
03-14-2012, 01:02 AM
What about Heavy Rain?

Kodos
03-14-2012, 01:10 AM
Ahahahahahaha. It's not like they literally added a female character to the game at the last moment solely to give her a shower scene and attempted rape scene (IIRC).

Oh. Wait. They did. That's exactly what they fucking did. Heavy Rain is Deadly Premonition with none of the wit, charm, or cleverness.

GunZet
03-14-2012, 01:13 AM
What about [insert game here].

Kodos
03-14-2012, 01:17 AM
There are well written games that handle shit well. I disagree with Clock. None of them are by Bioware, though.

GunZet
03-14-2012, 01:19 AM
The Witcher 2? Nowait... at the beginning of the game, I was having sex in a tent with a sorceress, and later on banged a couple wimmin in a brothel. Then an elf too. But a brothel makes sense, right? Cuz like... that's what they're made for.

Edit: Bit off topic here. Anyways. So right now it's 98% ending sucks, and 2% meh.

jubeh
03-14-2012, 01:43 AM
There is nothing wrong about this, there is nothing wrong to satisfy our fantasies, but this is why video games are unable to take any real emotional subject in a mature way. Reason why we might never see a Apocalypse Now or Psycho video game, because those are not about please ourself, but rather to find ourself through our fantasies.

Is this guy being for real

Sylux
03-14-2012, 06:31 AM
StarCon2, Chrono Trigger, FFIII, Phantasia, Earthbound, Secret of Mana, Super Mario RPG

GunZet
03-14-2012, 09:59 AM
Earthbound

Much respect, my man, much respect.

semi-related: GAWD, the combat in the first ME is just about the worse thing in the series, ugh.

Sylux
03-14-2012, 01:17 PM
It's fine.

GunZet
03-14-2012, 01:26 PM
I think it's fine at certain points, and there aren't a lot of those certain points in ME1. Other times it's just outright getting your ass rushed into a corner and killed in one punch by some Asari/Geth/Merc/Security personell/Rachni/whoever else that's dangerous. It just really feels too fast paced sometimes for how the gameplay is, and trips over it's own feet. ME2 got it right, though at the cost of sacrificing a lot of the RPG aspects from ME1. ME3 got what ME2 got wrong in gameplay, and brought back a bit of ME1 to boot.

Superdooperphailmachine
03-14-2012, 01:37 PM
What is this thing about sheps magic dick fixing Jack? I played Lady Shepard.

Sylux
03-14-2012, 04:39 PM
If u fuck jack apparently she stops being such a bitch or something idk

GunZet
03-14-2012, 05:20 PM
She starts softening up after you do her loyalty mission, the rest is just extras, so you don't necessarily cure her with a magic dick.

Outcast
03-14-2012, 06:25 PM
She's becomes less of an annoying bitch whether or not you "romance" her. You probably need to do the loyalty missiom though.

Also what's wrong with the gameplay.

T1B3R1U5
03-14-2012, 06:42 PM
Everything is wrong with the gameplay, Outcast. Everything.

Sylux
03-14-2012, 07:59 PM
She's becomes less of an annoying bitch whether or not you "romance" her. You probably need to do the loyalty missiom though.

Also what's wrong with the gameplay.
Gunzet is not good enough to conquer it

GunZet
03-14-2012, 08:05 PM
ME1 feels stiff and the combat feels unresponsive, enemies played Bioshock, so they rush and one two punch, gameover.
ME2 still feels a bit stiff, but the weapons feel better
ME3 feels like Gears1 but faster and more fluid edit: UNLIMITED MOFUCK'IN SPRINTING.

That's the rundown, can't pull the 'you suck' deal on me, Sy, lol.

Sylux
03-14-2012, 09:00 PM
Level 60 Shepard is invincible.

jubeh
03-14-2012, 11:03 PM
She starts softening up after you do her loyalty mission, the rest is just extras, so you don't necessarily cure her with a magic dick.

??

I just did her loyalty missions and she is still obnoxious idk what you're on about

GunZet
03-14-2012, 11:04 PM
Maybe you just hate bald women, ever think of that, huh Jubes, didya?

jubeh
03-14-2012, 11:06 PM
Man I love baldies man but she's like ALL I DO IS KILL MOTHER FUCKERS and Im like thats cool Im going to subway do you want a sandwich and she's like FUCK YOU SHEPARD

GunZet
03-14-2012, 11:10 PM
I remember after I slept with Jack, and then slept with Miranda cause she had better.... assets. And all Jack would say to me for the remainder of the game is 'FUCK OFF'. Funny.

jubeh
03-14-2012, 11:15 PM
How is that funny

GunZet
03-14-2012, 11:25 PM
Is this guy being for real.

Sylux
03-15-2012, 06:21 AM
Her voice is too annoying for it to be funny.

T1B3R1U5
03-15-2012, 03:03 PM
I agree that it would be funny if it was a different character but Jack? Too damn annoying vocals to be funny.

Evil_Cake
03-15-2012, 03:29 PM
wat

Sylux
03-15-2012, 07:38 PM
Yeah wat da fuq r u takkin aboot