PDA

View Full Version : Random's Tips / Hints / Guidance / Focused Critique Request!



Im_not_random
02-16-2012, 04:45 PM
Hey!

So I've done a little sketching type stuff, thought I'd ask for help on opinions regarding where I'm going wrong - there's only so much a tutorial can tell you. There's a number of things that don't really seem to be getting into my head for example. It's wierd though - only after I looked at a tutorial did I realise my arms have a sort of fat to thin shape. It was a bit of a 'hey - that totally makes sense now. Awesome!' moment. Anyway... Avoiding going off on a tangent...

Uploaded some of the most recent stuff I've tried, with the first being the oldest going down to the newest - trying to focus on things I personally feel I'm not very good at (at all). Anatomy and hands are big one of those things. Apologies for horrible quality, phone camera... Don't have a scanner and I don't think my work would take tooo kindly to me bringing in a large sketchbook and making a little use of the equipment in office :p


No.1 - Some male anatomy ( upper half attempt )

It's annoying - this one fairly baffles me a bit... I'm doing things I see said in tutorials but struggling to wrap my head properly around it. I think with this one, in places, I got some small bits right... But in general several things just look off to me... The webbed armpit kinda sticks out a little freakishly I guess... I'm wondering if anyone would be willing to point out a few quick things and kind of run through a very ' Oh.. That looks a bit short / bit too fat... Possibly should have had a larger this' very quick hints and a short suggestion as to how it probably should have been done would be much appreciated!

http://i.minus.com/jbgxgswIQ1QdJD.jpg (http://min.us/mC2EAnWsB#3o)


No. 2 - Female with glasses attempt

I kinda failed at this one... Planned to do a sitting girl, but I got to the chest and just got totally stuck... The elbow is also a bit off but I sort of got lazy and 'this is fail' so rushed it through. I've left my guesslines in for the chest - I'd really appreciate if someone could give it a quick lookover and sort of give me a poke in the correct direction. Also - the glasses... are a bit wonky I fear... It was kinda difficult to emphasize that they are flat, rigid but rounded frames whilst still trying to suggest 3dness... How might you have done this better?

Finally - is the neck looking ok? I'mma bit thinking it is.. But something just kinda bothers me about it. I may just be being overly paranoid... But a second opinion would be highly appreciated!

http://i.minus.com/jemFxd2HYFhBk.jpg (http://min.us/mC2EAnWsB#1o)


I generally enjoy drawing and just letting my creativity loose on random stuff.. But when I hit walls like this it usually starts to drain the fun out and becomes more like work... Hoping it's something I'll get over!

Thanks for reading and if you happen to check them out and provide a little insight or criticism - thanks in advance!

ClockHand
02-16-2012, 04:54 PM
Change the title. The deal is that if you are asking for tips or guidance this thread should go in the Drawing, Animation and Tutorial Forum; but if you making the thread for your own art work to be critiqued, then just place your forum nickname in the thread title.

Im_not_random
02-16-2012, 05:00 PM
Changed the title... I'm not really kinda looking for general advice and tips.. Sort of focused, like 'I've hit a wall with this one and would like a critique / opinion as to what I've done wrong, on what I think I've done wrong and how that might be fixed'

If I need just some hints / tips in general I will create a thread or find a similar thread with anything I might be after. I feel this is more critique-y because It's very individual attempt relative. Apologies if I'm getting mixed up with that, happy to close this down and move over if it's still going against the rules though

( Apologies regarding the title though - Typed it in originally, deleted to change the name a bit and then overlooked putting the name back in - also double apologies if I should have put the entire forum name on it.. Shortened it down to just 'Random' - understand if this is considered to be potentially confusing! )

canime4ever
02-16-2012, 06:08 PM
The picture on top looks pretty good :-) The hips/stomach area seems slightly out of place, like the right side seems like it's too 'in-ward'. The armpit area is tricky to draw from that angle, but the pecks should cover most of the left arm's armpit/triceps with only a little showing if the arm's raised like it is in the pic. Also, the right (our right) arm seems a little too short; elbows should almost line up with the belly button XD The left hand is good, as are the trapezius muscles (muscles between the shoulder and neck) ^u^

As for the second, the hair looks good, but a little bit too close to the skull if ya know what I mean, maybe make it a little bit more 'free'? The glasses look good too, but if you want to make it seem thicker, you could use a line to suggest the edge/corner of it; it doesn't have to be thick either, just a small line indicating that the glasses are thickly framed :) The left eye is slightly smaller in contrast to the right, you've got the perspective about right, but the farthest eye from the viewer should be skinnier than the one closest to us, but just about as tall. The ear seems like it's missing the lobe and ear canal, but it looks fine with or without that, so neh~ The neck looks a little on the short side, might I suggest using more fluid/curvier lines? The left shoulder looks good, but the right (once again, I mean our right) seems a little small and is missing the collar bone area (Trapezius muscle) and the arm looks too thin/not muscular enough (even girls have a little muscle :P) The breasts look about right, maybe moving the right slightly a little more so. I love how you drew the curve from the ribs though! It looks nice and the nose looks cute ^u^ Something that may help is by looking at your drawing in a mirror, I hear it's easier to spot mistakes :-)

Overall, I think they're overall good pictures, they just need slight adjustments :D

Please don't get discouraged and if you disagree with anything, by all means disregard it! Everyone has their own style, and what I may be advising you to change might be something you don't want to. I really hope this helps!! ~ :-)

Im_not_random
02-17-2012, 07:32 AM
Not discouraging at all, thanks for the critique! Find it more discouraging getting stuck and piling through material that I just don't seem to be understanding completely. Pretty short reply ( in work sorry! Will do a fuller one later) but your reply was exactly what I was looking for, so thanks very much!

-Al
02-17-2012, 01:48 PM
hey nice work! just keep drawing and from time to time u will find the ooo!! thats what i was doing wrong! moment and its really a turn on :]
Anyway study some perspective and foreshortening(as smthin goes back in space it diminishes in size)/overlapping forms... and you will be able to fake depth and realism. like on the first figure the torso is goin a bit back in space so you wont see that much portion of the latter half of the chest.....just check the reference below

http://drawingthelifeforce.blogspot.in/2010/04/sustained-planar-analysis-of-male-torso.html

analyzing masterworks is also a good way to learn :]
Hope i could help
p.s am not good with explaining :/
have fun drawing! :-]

Im_not_random
02-18-2012, 05:30 PM
Finally getting round to a proper reply! Spent most of today doodling and practicing stuff when I get a few minutes... Doing a drawing I'll probably ask for critique on.. tomorrow... when it'll probably be done! Took some of the feebback into account, hope it shows and is considerably better.. Shall see :p


The picture on top looks pretty good :-) The hips/stomach area seems slightly out of place, like the right side seems like it's too 'in-ward'. The armpit area is tricky to draw from that angle, but the pecks should cover most of the left arm's armpit/triceps with only a little showing if the arm's raised like it is in the pic. Also, the right (our right) arm seems a little too short; elbows should almost line up with the belly button XD The left hand is good, as are the trapezius muscles (muscles between the shoulder and neck) ^u^

Spent a lot of the doodly practice trying to sort out the stuff above... Think I'm starting to get it, still having trouble with the armpit plus pecs hiding a part of the figure. Think I just need practice - starting to sort of get it I think.




As for the second, the hair looks good, but a little bit too close to the skull if ya know what I mean, maybe make it a little bit more 'free'? The glasses look good too, but if you want to make it seem thicker, you could use a line to suggest the edge/corner of it; it doesn't have to be thick either, just a small line indicating that the glasses are thickly framed :) The left eye is slightly smaller in contrast to the right, you've got the perspective about right, but the farthest eye from the viewer should be skinnier than the one closest to us, but just about as tall. The ear seems like it's missing the lobe and ear canal, but it looks fine with or without that, so neh~ The neck looks a little on the short side, might I suggest using more fluid/curvier lines? The left shoulder looks good, but the right (once again, I mean our right) seems a little small and is missing the collar bone area (Trapezius muscle) and the arm looks too thin/not muscular enough (even girls have a little muscle :P) The breasts look about right, maybe moving the right slightly a little more so. I love how you drew the curve from the ribs though! It looks nice and the nose looks cute ^u^ Something that may help is by looking at your drawing in a mirror, I hear it's easier to spot mistakes :-)

Hadn't considered the hair being maybe too close... I think at the time I was trying to draw someone kind of 'not fashionable' plus the ponytail I imagined might kinda draw the hair back... But looking it over I agree I could have done better, bit more volume and less restriction would have added more dynamics and make it more interesting. The lines are also something I didn't consider, but makes perfect sense - heavier lines for thicker objects. Kind of obvious in retrospect :p

As for the eyes though I did make the left smaller... Maybe not small enough. Got a funny thing with the eyes, habit of making them bigger so I can put more in there, add loads of detail etc. Shall try making them thinner next time I try something like this ( or when I happen go back to this one. )

The ears... I dunno, I kinda like the way I did them for this. Thinking it could be a stylistic thing. I've kinda ended up doing them the same for the one I'm doodling out now. Might keep doing them that way.

Also doing more fluidy lines for necks, trying to put them in - Looking interesting, I like the difference in suggestion between extreme rigid muscly with more solid lines and more frail, weak or just sleek / cute with more curved lines in the neck. Need to mess around with this more, just sort of saw a tutorial that said 'do it this way for guys' and went with it.

Lots more practice to do though :p Thanks!



hey nice work! just keep drawing and from time to time u will find the ooo!! thats what i was doing wrong! moment and its really a turn on :]
Anyway study some perspective and foreshortening(as smthin goes back in space it diminishes in size)/overlapping forms... and you will be able to fake depth and realism. like on the first figure the torso is goin a bit back in space so you wont see that much portion of the latter half of the chest.....just check the reference below

http://drawingthelifeforce.blogspot.in/2010/04/sustained-planar-analysis-of-male-torso.html


Hehe, always a huge confidence and enthusiasm boost to realise I've started doing something better. Doing some perspectives and trying to get that further / smaller thing down now... Hopefully make some progress to be further critiqued in the near future!

Thanks for the feedback!

Im_not_random
02-19-2012, 04:07 PM
So! Images of a couple of proportions attempts plus an actual sort of drawing, sketch and more solid lineart version.

Proportions


http://i.minus.com/jzshiR9Yssbff.JPG (http://min.us/m40jDLW4V#3o)


Sketchy version

http://i.minus.com/jeixgJDyZZQsI.JPG (http://min.us/m40jDLW4V#1o)


More solidy version

http://i.minus.com/j5xCLy9FKZ4g5.JPG (http://min.us/m40jDLW4V#2o)



Mostly a practice thing, couple of things I notice myself maybe could be done better - shoulders weren't made broad enough I think - maybe the hair could be better, jacket collar and hood section is a bit random and all over the place.

Tried to put more weight into the hair - but figured this style might come more out from the scalp... Left my guressline for the head in there, didn't erase the sketchy lines, just overlaid the solid ones.

I think this is ok for practice though, but would really appreciate any critique!

canime4ever
02-19-2012, 06:07 PM
Okay, you ready for this? :cat_evil:

All joking aside...

Proportions crit.

Very good! Everything looks a-okay to me for it being just a sketch, but maybe a tad tweaking here and there, like the legs look a little stout, and the elbows are still a little off. Here's a little tip for what I like to do, depending on the chara's height, I start by drawing several circles that are approximately the same size, one on top of another, kinda like making a snowman; about five for the shorter and seven for taller and six for average, then I cut it in half, the bottom half being legs and upper being everything else. I believe that making half the character legs is called video game style or something like that XD This is only a suggestion, you can do whatever you want.
:cat_noways:


More solidy version crit.

I'm impressed~ Really, the only crit I have is the nose and mouth/chin area. Once again this is just a style preference...

http://www.mangatutorials.com/file/pic/photo/2012/02/canime4ever-hopefully-helping-xd.jpg?t=4f41809028f5c

I also agree with you about the shoulders being slightly too thin.

I hoped this helped some~ :cat_shylove:

Im_not_random
02-20-2012, 01:58 PM
I tried the stacked circles a few times but kinda found the proportions stuff I did turned out extremely rigid and odd looking :/ Then again, the method I used above was pretty much the same before too... Shall give it a try!

Mostly just used a sort of 'Yeah, that looks about the right size' method so far.

Didn't think about doing the nose, mouth and chin like that.. Definitely looks better, thanks! Need to try doing one that way next time I do a little drawing.

Mr_Liebe
02-20-2012, 03:49 PM
Work a bit more on body proportions, and on facial expressions. Other than that, you're doing just fine.

Im_not_random
02-23-2012, 11:39 AM
Did some more stuff! Would appreciate some critique on a couple of them..


Did this this morning, originally thought ' wow this looks awesome.. ' but I've found things don't look so amazing after you stand up and take a good look... at the whole thing. Practice etc, but I'd really appreciate some critique and picking out of the annoying naggly things I did totally wrong :/

http://i.minus.com/j1C2o0Yw0TO9I.jpg (http://min.us/mmxuVA4O4#1o)

Second!

Sketched, lined out and sort of shaded this one... I'm not sure though, whats the opinions regarding it? ( I scrapped the left side... ran out of paper space and it was kinda just not working out as I imagined... )

http://i.minus.com/jhETVxn4l23GT.jpg (http://min.us/mmxuVA4O4#3o)


Finally, a couple of the 'expressions' practice - cheesy grinny laugh, focused 'What you think you doin'' and a "What.. Do you think you're doing?" ( sarcastic blunt, little scared version).

I tried the lip chin nose change thing on the one I never filled hair into ( I need to work on hair as well as the rest, make it more interesting etc. ) but anyway, Critiques appreciated!

http://i.minus.com/j0OZiLC7jj9Jp.jpg (http://min.us/mmxuVA4O4#2o)

Rubisko
02-25-2012, 11:15 AM
Heya,

I scrolled this thread, and I think I can see some improvement between the first and the last post; the drawings gets better and better as you begin to understand the basic underlying shapes. It seems from your comments you're in a phase where you try to read every manga tutorial on the net, been there... :) However, I've found that most of the tutorials out there are mostly derives from the books by Andrew Loomis, so I encourage you to get them (since they were written so long ago, they are now completely free to download, google Andrew Loomis and you'll find them). This is probably the best one to start with, and it's my personal favourite of his books:

http://www.ryman.org/currentstudents/pdfdocs/Loomis.Funwithapencil.pdf

:)

Im_not_random
02-28-2012, 06:04 PM
Thanks, Will check this out!

Im_not_random
03-03-2012, 01:42 PM
Still at it!

Been mostly trying different hairstyles, facial expressions and such. Looking at real life pics, then adapting to some form of drawing. Spent a little time doing this though... originally planned to do a full pic, including background, but I totally failed on attempting to draw the female character in this one... There's some visibility in the sketched back, left the perspective guide I threw in there also.

In terms of the perspective though, I think I got it about right - any critiques regarding that?

Somewhate based on a little idea I had for a scene in Atrophy, Joran ( Not final design - based on earlier drawing of dif. character ) facing off against a hostile ( and somewhat broken ) KE.

http://i.minus.com/jVUOZ3XKzWwVQ.JPG (http://min.us/mbaycMwroX#1o)

I think I need to find a better method for plotting out female anatomy, proportions. Used the one I do for male characters ( which seems to do me not too bad ) but still a bit lost at how to go about sketching out a female one.

Rubisko
03-03-2012, 03:50 PM
Hey man!

As far as I can tell, the perspective looks right, but I might be wrong. This is how i percieve the perspective you put in, if it deviates from your plan we were probably both wrong
http://i1150.photobucket.com/albums/o608/jenbe753/random_2.jpg

But the guy in the foreground looks kinda weak, being so low on the canvas. Size does matter, and if I got your idea right those two are about to fight. Now it looks like he is gonna sneak away as quietly as he can though. Personally I would have done it something like this. I use the same perspective and proportions i think you used, but altered the poses and the placement of the characters a little
http://i1150.photobucket.com/albums/o608/jenbe753/random_1.jpg
Sorry for putting in too many details, it was fun so I got carried away. Then I realized that it was a crit, not the "pimp my art"-thread... I hope it helps you anyway, see ya

Im_not_random
03-04-2012, 07:54 PM
Thanks for the extremely detailed crit man!

That is roughly the perspective I went with, I was probably a bit ~ish with the construction of it.

Didn't consider the placement of characters as to suggest strength / disposition. Makes a lot of sense now you point it out though, will be handy to use that in future for effect, thanks! Will need to go back and redo that one in the near future for practice!



More recent work though, in between a few attempts to do character designs for 'Atrophy' I decided to plot one down for Joran ( He's currently probably my favourite of the bunch. Likely the deepest and most complex anyway. )... Ended up thinking 'bah! I'll try to throw a couple characters down on one page...'

This was the result, would appreciate some crit! ( Please note I sort of gave up on it when i saw it start to fall apart... I do really like the Joran design though... May improve on and use that as a final. )

http://i.minus.com/j9Ld0V25WscVT.jpg (http://min.us/mqlHWX4Wg#1o)

Characters (left - right, all main story arc timeline)

Kwi, Joran, Ashia, Heia (very lightly face sketched Heia, decided to call it a night and leave it as a 'good try' )


Couple things in particular I'd really like crit on - how's the composition? Couple of bits are potentially jarring, being a little stylistically different in places.. Unfortunately still finding my 'style' but getting there... So a little randomness likely.

Intent was for Kwi to be kinda wraithlike, Joran to be fairly laid back looking, Ashia sort of fierce / determined and Heia just being cheerful.

Rubisko
03-05-2012, 02:58 AM
Hey man, starts top feel like a dialouge this, but here I go:

Charcter designs are tricky, so I decided to read about Athropy in your other thread. I didn't clearly get the hang of the genre: if it's fantasy or postapocalypse. So I can't really make a comment on that, I trust you've taken all the lore into account in the design already. What I did note about the story however is that you could benefit by reading a specific book, the Brothers Lionheart. It's a classic here in Sweden, and it's a good example of the modern people in a medivial world thing, here's the wiki page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brothers_Lionheart
With the rebirth-concept I guess you could could also benefit from reading "the priests tale" in Dan Simmons Book "Hyperion", it's about a people who are resurrected whenever they die but have become obsessed and enslaved by their own immortality as a consequence. May not be what you try to capture, but one might as well know as much about what others done as one can I guess. When I come to think of it, watching the three episodes about "Coon and friends" from southpark season 14 episode eleven. You can find them at southparkstudios.com (the official website, the episode stream is financed by ads, so expect some interruptions in the stream)

On composition there are some things I guess you could do. Triangular composition, diamond composition and the rule of odds should all be helpful when you're doing something like this, try to google them. I encourage you to read as much about is as you can, and if you find any good articles on it please let me know, I think this is the most fascinating subject when it comes to art

Im_not_random
03-05-2012, 08:51 AM
Heyloes again!

There are elements of post apocalypse, fantasy, medieval and sci fi all bundled into one. Depends where in the timeline you are. The 'old world' is essentially left in a post apocalyptic wreck, but aside from a few quick references it's mostly just the subject of nostalgic daydreams or random conversations of the same nature.

This is more writing crit, so will try to keep it short, can create another thread in the writing / roleplay section for further discussion if necessary.

Basically there are 3 arcs, or ages.

1. Prologue - Very much fantasy / medieval - Ashia is introduced to the world in this age and her armour is aimed to reflect it.

Based on a mix of plate armour and also a little influence from Mass Effect NC7 armour, to suggest people are a little wiser in the making of armour this time around. I plan to reduce the level of coverage in the main arc, to suggest she's adapted to favouring flexibility, given she has that nice little shield thing going down to protect her. Also to reinforce the experience she's gained, possibly bash in or dent parts of the shoulder pads etc. Then also, the scarf that originally belonged to Draidzn, hinting at the inner turmoil within

2. Main Arc - Fashions, tech from the old world becomes available to factions and the rich via trade with Elkra. - Joran's shield, trenchcoat and armour reflect modern or possibly near future armour types.

I referenced this for inspiration when creating the underlay armor beneath his trenchcoat - http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_372pXNDb6uY/StqzsMLUPeI/AAAAAAAAAZw/TqdfrrcEIso/s1600 /MNU_armour2_views4_fin_GB_1100.jpg

It still needs development though, of course.

3. Final Arc - Mainly weapons tech development, the world hits a bit of an apex in the main arc, very little progress otherwise. Fancier armour, similar to Joran's becomes easier to obtain though, with most of the characters upgrading their equipment to suit. Line infantry and general reborns are forced to keep what they have though.

On top of all that though there are specific 'fashion' trends per nation and group. I.e. Elkra nationalists wear heavy, concealing robes when outwith their fortress city ( for example, when on trade runs. ). The outlaw faction, being desert based, wrap up in multiple layers of tattered cloth, with a nomadic sort of look to them. Within the inner confines of New Europa, everyone wears fashionable dresses, suits etc modelled similarly to modern day dresses. Where as serfs and peasant types in any random corner of the world would be forced to wear tattered old low quality cloth garments.

It's an eclectic mix, basically.

In terms of the world's lore - it's only really a few years old, so the lore will be fairly minimal. It's established also that no-one really has any clue what's really happened, how this world came to be or the likes. There are a few theories going around, but no real proven facts.

So I guess 'lore' is a bit of a misnomer, more ' recent history ', and 'systems' defining how things like magic, rebirth, general physics work.

Rebirth, depending on where you are on the class ladder, could either be a blessing or a curse. Mostly curse though. I want to weigh in on the psychological aspects of it but have characters weave humour around it as a form of catharsis or mere escape - see Draidzn's gamer attitude.

I'm not sure about reading other material when I know they'd be going on a different angle than I am... Plus my musicianship instincts tell me I'll pick something up and incorporate it subconciously by paying too much attention to how someone else went about it. I think I need to go about it as ' This is what I want to express / convey... Now, I'll figure out how to do so.. '

I have seen the south park episodes however. Death for Kenny is mostly just a pain in the ass however, with only minimal backlash in terms of Psychology. It's pretty empty and purely for the morbid humour aspect. Whenever any character development was built up it was shortly killed by turning it into a joke ( the scene where he off's himself in front of the others, telling them to remember it this time and those following come to mind ). What really would be crippling in reality is brushed off as merely aggrivating and used as comedy material. I'm trying to do something a bit more serious.

Any humour would need to try to make the whole thing light hearted and mostly be between Sparks and higher members of society. Serfs and peasants would have nothing to laugh about, living in squalour. Sparks and Royalty are, for the most part, overjoyed they can potentially continue living this relatively good-to-awesome life forever ( some Sparks excluded ). The not so fortunate struggle to survive in order to just avoid having to suffer the pain included in a slow death by starvation.

Many new reborns might think 'Well, this is awesome! I don't have to eat, drink or sleep again! I can just go mental all the time, and if I die? Bleh! I'll just be back doing the same thing tomorrow!' that changes as reality dawns on them. I want to make that clear distinction. Dieing is not nice, even if you are reborn again shortly afterwards.

A side story came to mind regarding an average day in the life of a normal reborn. It was seriously depressing, but would make good side material to flesh the world out. I can put up the rough gist of the synopsis in the writing / roleplay forum if it's of interest.


Looking up some composition stuff though... Looking... very.. complex hehe