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Kodos
01-18-2012, 09:23 PM
So this was an idea I had all by myself and totally didn't have it suggested to me by Bacon who himself based the idea on an old thread by Hammy.
This was 100% my idea.
ORIGINAL THREAD, DO NOT STEAL.

Anyway, I was thinking it might help people to bounce ideas off each other, and shit, if they had a place to do it. This is that place. Discuss your ongoing manga projects, and whatever else that might fall under the purview of this board. Ask for input, bounce ideas off each other, encourage each other, whatever. Go hog wild!

Bacon_Barbarian
01-18-2012, 09:40 PM
So, interesting topic, I think. Why is it so hard to actually go out an make a comic? Even if it's only a one shot. I know a decent amount of us here on the board are participating in Manga Month, but why haven't most of us decided to come out and do that on our own? I'm sure many of us already have the characters floating around in our heads. Some of us may already have a plot. And we all obviously love comics - what do we care if it turns out to be crap? You've got to start somewhere.

Peteman
01-21-2012, 07:27 PM
In my experiance it's because making a whole manga/comic requires planning, forthought and concentration; yet when I draw it's usually off the top of my head. To make a whole manga isn't as fun, in a away, as simply drawing is.

Outcast
01-22-2012, 02:37 AM
For me it's lack of drawing ability and desire to practice.

BozeSG
01-22-2012, 06:47 PM
"If i wanna do it, i gotta do it right and perfect"

^this thought's been preventing me from making manga since i started drawing...

ClockHand
01-23-2012, 12:03 AM
I'm going to give the same advice I gave jubeh some time ago about this.

Always keep a small notebook in your pocket, with a pen. This is really helpful because most of the time, ideas come in unexpected moments, and you will want to keep note about those ideas (even if are crap). Also because everything you see in real life, is worth time to take notes about it, don't you waste time basing your information on comics or other sources (yeah they are a powerful source, but real life have way more depths to take notes).

Another advices.

Always work a story board. It's simple and it works, you will start doodling random stories probably, but ones you take the time to look at the story board you can change it's shape and start working with a more structured script.

And ask people, read, and look at things, many things. Dunno, I pass with the same problem as many, that I will try to make everything perfect. I prefer that everyone (including myself), start working in short stories, but stories that help us as practice, stories where we can improve techniques and concepts, you can left those big creative stories for later when you have the skill needed.

Bacon_Barbarian
01-23-2012, 05:39 PM
I gotta say, I agree with you Clock. I always go to be with a pen and pad of paper on my bedside-stand in case I think up something good while I'm falling asleep. Frequently when I go back over it in the morning, it isn't nearly as good as I remember, but usually it can be worked into something (at least) I think is cool

Regantor
01-23-2012, 07:03 PM
I prefer that everyone (including myself), start working in short stories, but stories that help us as practice, stories where we can improve techniques and concepts, you can left those big creative stories for later when you have the skill needed.

This must be the number one peice of good advice that nobody ever listens too, myself included... I guess it's just easier to get motivated when you can at least dillude yourself into thinking the story won't be forgotten in a week. :/

But yeah. Clock advice here is good stuff.

Anyway. Free manga idea I'm not using;

Tiny robots pilot nervous preteens, combating awkward social situations with Gurren-Lagann levels of gusto. "POINT BLANK FACE CONTACT HYPER KISSING TECHNIQUE!"

ram
01-24-2012, 05:38 AM
I just redesigned Sophie, If you know her I just registered her in Saimoe...

http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee388/skyramiel/page-3.jpg
I've designed her 2 to 4 times I think and keep on making her wear accessory and erasing it if it doesn't fit her.

And in the end I just put a shiny ball on her head OTL..... Just when the heck am I going to develop a fashion designing sense!?

Edti: Also I'm still not good with Shadowing stuffs so I used illuststudio model to do the Job...
http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee388/skyramiel/stophere.jpg
I still don't trust this 3d models for anatomy and poses but they seem to work good if your referencing shadows.. XD

Also this is my previous character design on sophie
http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee388/skyramiel/sophie.jpghttp://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee388/skyramiel/sophie-2.jpg

Psy
01-24-2012, 12:52 PM
@Ram: I stand by the rule of fashion must have function. So when you design most kinds of accessories start with the basics of what it is. Is it a watch? Hair clip? Purse/bag/backpack? Cellphone? Headphones? Bluetooth ear piece? If its any of these then start there then build upon it and embellish it to make something that matches the characters personality or style. It's fantasy so you could even make some things that aren't real or possible yet to give to your char.

So once you pick you start with the basic shape and size then tweak it from there. You could design a new style of phone shaped like a cartoony bunny that slides open to use so that it looks like its smiling and is talking into your ear. A hair clip could become a cute butterfly clip. With the ball in the hair I'd say add two to each side so it looks like bolitas (I forget what the English word is. How weird that's a first for me lol) http://safe-img02.olx.com.mx/ui/5/28/48/1272372892_90442048_1-Fotos-de--Fabricante-de-bolitas-para-el-cabello-mas-de-50-modelos-1272372892.jpg so it looks like its actually holding the hair because idk how that ball is holding her hair by itself like that.

SuperKasey
01-25-2012, 10:52 AM
I feel like every time I start something I get a few pages in and then start thinking to myself, "This looks like crap," "I can do better than this," "Nobody will want to read this garbage," "This begining won't work," etc. . . I'm really not nice to myself when it comes to judging my own work.
But I've actually got my whole story planned out and started which is a big deal for me. Now if only I can keep my inner critc/bully quiet.

ram
01-25-2012, 11:01 AM
@Ram: I stand by the rule of fashion must have function. So when you design most kinds of accessories start with the basics of what it is. Is it a watch? Hair clip? Purse/bag/backpack? Cellphone? Headphones? Bluetooth ear piece? If its any of these then start there then build upon it and embellish it to make something that matches the characters personality or style. It's fantasy so you could even make some things that aren't real or possible yet to give to your char.

So once you pick you start with the basic shape and size then tweak it from there. You could design a new style of phone shaped like a cartoony bunny that slides open to use so that it looks like its smiling and is talking into your ear. A hair clip could become a cute butterfly clip. With the ball in the hair I'd say add two to each side so it looks like bolitas (I forget what the English word is. How weird that's a first for me lol) http://safe-img02.olx.com.mx/ui/5/28/48/1272372892_90442048_1-Fotos-de--Fabricante-de-bolitas-para-el-cabello-mas-de-50-modelos-1272372892.jpg so it looks like its actually holding the hair because idk how that ball is holding her hair by itself like that.

Thanks for the advice Psy! Specially with the bolitas part.. I don't know how long it would took me to figure that out without you telling me!

ClockHand
01-25-2012, 11:48 AM
I feel like every time I start something I get a few pages in and then start thinking to myself, "This looks like crap," "I can do better than this," "Nobody will want to read this garbage," "This begining won't work," etc. . . I'm really not nice to myself when it comes to judging my own work.
But I've actually got my whole story planned out and started which is a big deal for me. Now if only I can keep my inner critc/bully quiet.

As I said, we should have no interested, at the moment, in making a good story or making pretty draws. We need to put realistic goals in short comics, so we can practice technique, concept, and methodology.

When you think "man, this look like crap" or "the story have no sense at all", don't throw it away, just keep going, but ask yourself: what do you want to achieve with the story, your goal. Because I believe, that's the point for us, noobs.

Small steps, but with clear goals, that's my proposal to everyone in here (including myself).

PD: Also if you guys want to have some ideas of what to practice, look here http://www.mangatutorials.com/forum/showthread.php?1657-Comic-Manga-Discussion-Thread-In-Media-Res. We have discussed some technical and conceptual points on comic making, so go and pick a subject as a goal (and it would be even better if you join to the discussions there).

tagYURIT
01-27-2012, 03:14 AM
"If i wanna do it, i gotta do it right and perfect"

^this thought's been preventing me from making manga since i started drawing...

I sooo agree with you . .

so. .wha kind of manga do ya wanna do?

Bacon_Barbarian
01-28-2012, 01:29 PM
I think the best thing to do is to make a short manga (much like Clock said) that acts as a one shot of the eventual manga you'd like to make. It doesn't need to be perfect, its just for practice. And the fact that it's an actual comic and not just random illustrations will help all the more.

Sutari
02-11-2012, 10:51 AM
Its not the scripting or the paneling (thanks to seef for helping me), its the BG textures. And thats beating around the bush. My biggest problem is coming up with my own style of backgrounds that fits the characters. Like, how kishimoto masashi colors his skies black. (which i copied for a while), and mashima hiro puts small curved lines on the edges of rounded objects to make them look 3-D.

The whole reason chapter 2 of my own comic is taking as long as it is, is because i cant figure out my own style of tree-bark. I need one that fits the cross hatched freehand pattern i use for the leaves/bushes. And i dont want to depend on stock textures from deviantART. I want my own unique way of doing it. Something about just drawing textures by hand instead of opening a pre-made texture and Ctrl+A selecting, then Ctrl+X cutting, then pasting and multiplying, then inverse selecting the panels i don't want it to be on, then touch up erasing seems easier to me...

Mr_Liebe
02-22-2012, 12:39 AM
I'm thinking of going back to my S8 project, one that my good buddy Rei reminded me of. I haven't really created any characters, or anything, but I have an idea for a plot and some little stories that could easily be interwoven into the story for some nice story arcs. Given a few days, I could write a synopsis, write up some plot lines, just some things that could serve as a foundation for my little project.

Of course, if Rei or Kasey, or any of you fine people have insights that could help my manga bloom to fruition, I would be both obliged, and very appreciative.

Arganois
03-10-2012, 11:28 PM
I just redesigned Sophie, If you know her I just registered her in Saimoe...

http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee388/skyramiel/page-3.jpg
I've designed her 2 to 4 times I think and keep on making her wear accessory and erasing it if it doesn't fit her.

And in the end I just put a shiny ball on her head OTL..... Just when the heck am I going to develop a fashion designing sense!?

Edti: Also I'm still not good with Shadowing stuffs so I used illuststudio model to do the Job...
http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee388/skyramiel/stophere.jpg
I still don't trust this 3d models for anatomy and poses but they seem to work good if your referencing shadows.. XD

Also this is my previous character design on sophie
http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee388/skyramiel/sophie.jpghttp://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee388/skyramiel/sophie-2.jpg

hello sir where did you get the 3d anatomy and can u explain what illust studio is?

cuz im planning to make a manga this week and im still not good at shadowing and anatomy

thank you in advance sir

Sylux
03-11-2012, 12:13 AM
Um how old is Sophie supposed to be

Anyways someone should make a manga style comic where pedophilia is NOT glorfied

Mr_Liebe
03-11-2012, 03:43 AM
I have an idea for a one shot. It's about a boy who sees an angel, bathing in a stream, while out walking in the woods. Figured it'd be nice to have something to work on, and improve my skills with, although once I'm good enough I might redo this and take it to a publishing house, I don't know. Anyone want to help?

Sylux
03-11-2012, 11:40 AM
Angel is really overdone, maybe a cyborg ninja angel would help your chances of success

Mr_Liebe
03-11-2012, 05:01 PM
I'll get to that when I have some of the other things worked out.

Im_not_random
03-11-2012, 08:24 PM
I don't personally think there's anything wrong with the angel concept - depending on where you take it. As Sylux has said - it's overdone. Try to avoid cliche's and establish a firm reason for why it's an angel and not something else. Have an interesting spin on it, or do something you don't find in comics / manga often.

At least, I think if you avoid stereotypical plot lines and cliches, you're fine. If you're taking it to a publishing firm they're going to want to know why someone would buy your product over the other ones with an angel in there as a plot point. Be different, creative and exciting!

Mr_Liebe
03-11-2012, 08:41 PM
You didn't read my entire post, I said that once I was good enough , that I would redo the one shoot, make it presentable enough with a nice 'different' spin to it, blah blah blah. Right now, however, I'm focusing on improving my art skills, this is just practice at the moment. It'll probably be years and years before I can even consider sending anything in to a publishing house. Lol, I might be in my late 20's early 30's before I can draw something up that would interest a company.

ClockHand
03-11-2012, 08:52 PM
I hate the idea of angels and super natural beings that help humans.

First of all angels are basically a Christian construct (yeah there are angels in Jewish and Muslim stories, but Christianity made them what they are now), so applying this beings, is basically agreeing with each other of the Christian values and beliefs. And even if you explain that there is no relationship between your angel and this Christian beliefs, the only fact that you are using this being is prove enough that you are reinforcing this idea of good vs evil.

The second problem for my taste is that using this magical beings as these, is that you are weakening the character against its fate. The problem is not necessarily with angels or that kind of stuffs, but the idea of: "he found an angel by mistake". This simple paragraph show us that the character is just a victim of fate or the narrator, and not the consequence of his actions. This is extremely important, because when you write, you must do it in a cause - consequences way, and not giving cheap jumps from the actions.

And third, but not last (because there are more, but I will only say 3), is that using this magical beings has become not just cliché but also cheap. As they are used to justify subjects on the story, making writing bad and retarded.

There are soo many reasons why I would suggest to not pick the classical angel encounter, but rather to pick a more interesting view of the subject as some other comic books have done, like Lucifer.

Sylux
03-11-2012, 09:06 PM
I like stories where it's humans and human values versus a more perfect race or society, with empathizable values in themperfect society, and empathizable imperfect human characters.

Mr_Liebe
03-11-2012, 09:31 PM
It's a template, just a foundation that I'll be working on, really. I'm not going to really worry too much about making it original at the moment, that can wait until later. I need to pace myself with this project, since I'm the only one working on it, so I'm going to do this in phases.

Although I may ask one of the writers here to help me with the writing part.

Sylux
03-11-2012, 09:55 PM
You need to foucus on originality. I can tell you now that about all of the good writers won't read much less critique this piece if you follow through with it. If you want to improve in writing, including pacing, you're gonna need critique, and for us to critique you you're gonna need to make an effort.

Mr_Liebe
03-11-2012, 10:23 PM
Patience, kiddo, it'll be a while for me to write something good, as there really isn't a whole lot of originality left in the world, I'd love to come up with a fresher idea for a nice plot, but man I've been thinking on this for a while now, and well I don't want to force it, I don't want to give up on it, but you know... it's irritating. Also, there's a whole lot of other stuff that I need to work on as well, and fool can only do so much, ha ha ha.

I need to be honest, just wanted a project to distract me from not so happy stuff. I'm not sure I'll even do this project, just wanted, really it was just a bit of fun, you know? I still could use a lot of work on my art skills, because I still don't draw too well, eh, maybe I should hold off onto these projects until I can draw quite a bit better, lol.

Bacon_Barbarian
03-12-2012, 12:34 AM
Note to self: Clock's going to hate my comic as Satan is the antagonist. Of course, the incorporation of Christian mythology doesn't mean the work is Christian. Shaman King for example.

Anyway ... I was thinking about the death of characters again. Back on the old MT I was discussing how to make the death of a character important, but still have the character be revived. It was decided amongst MTers that this had to be done by making the revival a huge fucking deal. So more Order of the Stick and less Dragon Ball Z.

My question is this. If that is the case, how come Gantz is so potent? We know everyone's going to die. We know people can be brought back. And yet, most of the time, when someone does die, the reader will get really upset.

If this makes no sense I am truly sorry as I am tired as Hell.

ClockHand
03-12-2012, 12:38 AM
In Gantz the revival is never explained or anything, as far as the reader can understand, you are never revived.

Sylux
03-12-2012, 12:41 AM
I think same thing with Naoki Urasawa's Monster. People died all the time but it was still a powerful theme, throughout all 74 episodes.

ClockHand
03-12-2012, 01:54 AM
Urasawa has a indubitable skill to always provide a strong ending for each volume. Just the first volume ending makes you put such a strong voice in her doctor Tenma scream that leaves no doubt about how strong is the foundations of empathy with the character. And not to mention the tempo on the story, which I think is fucking amazing.

And bacon, if you want that the reader cares about the death of a character, your most focus in create a empathy bridge with the character to the readers, makes them care about that character and makes them feel that they want to be like that character, or that they could be like him if a twist in their life let them. Make the character meaningful, create a empathy bridge and always make the reader believe in the character. If you do these, you will see that people will care, even if you revive him later.

CypressDahlia
03-12-2012, 03:56 AM
In Gantz, you don't revive. When you are transported into the room, gantz uses the teleportation tech to record your entire being as data, so when people are revived, the original copy isn't actually brought back, it's just restored from a "backup" copy made by Gantz, who had memories only until the point at which they were first "recorded".

Sal
03-22-2012, 02:16 PM
How about something dealing with organizations clashing with each other....and we mix up a couple of genres

Bacon_Barbarian
03-23-2012, 06:29 PM
What are you even trying to say?

Sylux
03-23-2012, 10:15 PM
She's trying to be creative but it's just horrible writing, almost as a bad as Mikey Bay.

Kodos
03-24-2012, 01:45 AM
She? Dammit, Sylux, you're being as incomprehensible as Sal.

Start making sense, people!

Sal
03-24-2012, 01:57 AM
Damn nvm wtf are we talking about? Clockhand is talking about some Gantz mutherfcker aand this thread says general manga project.

Kodos
03-24-2012, 04:09 AM
Please read the OP. That should explain everything. Or better yet, read the thread. It's only 4 pages. It's not that large

ram
03-24-2012, 09:51 PM
hello sir where did you get the 3d anatomy and can u explain what illust studio is?

cuz im planning to make a manga this week and im still not good at shadowing and anatomy

thank you in advance sir

I got your message and it's about this question... sorry but I can't answer you there since your profile is private...
Illuststudio is a art software almost the same as photoshop or Sai.. Actually more on combination of the two
the 3d models comes with the software...
here's how you open it
http://melloki.deviantart.com/art/IllustStudio-Tutorial-Part-3-194172843

Regantor
03-25-2012, 08:23 PM
Guh. I'm constantly working on something, but ever since 'Saturn Lander' totally crashed and burned last year, I've been finding it majorly hard to actually finish anything... Perhaps it's because I feel like even if I perfectly replicate the things in my head, they just won't appeal to anybody else regardless.

My point is, just how important is being able to tell what the plot is by the first glance? Would any of you guys, in all honesty, ever actually read something if you didn't already generally know what the plot was about beforehand? Would something of the same genre that you like, but with differant-looking main characters, still be a turn off? Does 'general asthetic' even come into play when people are looking around?

It feels wrong to try and pander to these things, but people's 'minimal expectations' are just so hard to judge. I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting people to actually enjoy your work. x_x

Bacon_Barbarian
03-25-2012, 09:30 PM
I think that's a worry most artists have, Reg. What if other people don't like it? What if they don't get it? Maybe they'll think I'm nuts. Maybe it's because I didn't accurately bring my idea to life. Etc., etc., etc.

You know what? Forget them. Yeah, maybe it'll take a while for you to find an audience, but you've almost got a captive one here. (:P) It's always good to get the experience of making a piece even if no one likes it. And if you like it, does it really if anyone else does? Yeah, sure that's what you may want but ... Well. Does it matter? I know that personally I've been interested in your past works.

As to the "general background" thing, that's tough, and honestly, I don't know. When I was little I just sort of fell into Pokemon and Digimon and the like. Same thing for when I was a little older. Now a days I just sort of look things up on Wikipedia before I try something out, or I'm reading it upon recommendation. But most good pieces will have a good introduction. One Piece sets up it's story well. Naruto does an OK job (as to whether or not the story of Naruto is good is another question.) You have to be able to lure people into your work. In media res works sometimes, but you want to make sure your audience isn't blind at the start of everything.

ClockHand
03-25-2012, 10:06 PM
I think what we care is making the adventure call in the first chapter or volumen.

I think this deal is problematic just when you don't know how to approach the story, some times we are very straightforward and we miss the opportunity to tell the story in a more efficient way. My advice: read.

PD: I could go more in details later, cuz now I'm playing stuffs.

Regantor
03-25-2012, 10:32 PM
Thanks for the support Bacon, I appreciate it. Basically agree with what you are saying, too. Maybe I just need to work a hell of alot more on my writing... I think that people do set out specifically looking for a type of story, through, since that's basically entertainment in a nutshell. It's almost got me in the mindset that it might be better to lie to people about the genre at first, then specifically use that moment to explain how this story is not like the others... For instance, nobody would read a story about a guy who is a rubbish superhero, but they might if it's shown how he tries to stop some crooks at first, then unexpectedly gets his ass handed to him (Because powers don't come easily in this example world, perhaps.)... Hooks like that are really critical.

Anyway. I probally do rely on the 'storyboard' thing too much, so I won't suggest that I'm not a bad writer like Clock is hinting at. Wish Hammish was still around more often, this is really the kind of problem she could deal with. -_-

ClockHand
03-26-2012, 03:32 AM
Ok, now I'm more free.

What I'm trying to say is that you don't need to tell what the plot is at the first chapter or volumen. No one is forcing you at that and trust me, readers are going to still read your story even if you don't show what the plot is about; because what mater is not: you showing the plot; but rather gave them the feeling of the coming adventure, and that is the Call to Adventure.

I'm not hitting at your writing skills, but I start by the belief that no one knows how to write and we are all amateurs, that's why I always tell everyone (and myself) to read. This is because many problems where you get stocked at not knowing how to confront the story, you can see them better solved in other books, movies or comics. Even more you can learn how volumens are structured to gave a meaning and a complete story inside a volumen, which I believe is the first step to make the story engaging for the readers, because as you force yourself to make one volumen a story in its own, you are forcing to gave the first sense of adventure sooner, and at the same time, give a conclusion that is still in a context of introduction for your characters.

As an example, Fables does a extraordinary job to present characters and story without giving any plot to the reader in the first volumen. This is because the whole volumen is a story in its own. Another example is Monster, where the first volumen do show a major plot event, but the first volumen is about that, the big shocking event that after you read the volumen makes you wonder what is going to happen next.

The first chapter is hard, is pretty hard, but that's why I believe we must work in one shots before extended stories, because if you can create a complete story in a one shot of 30 something pages, then you can easily make a 4 or 5 chapters that make sense and are engaging.

PD: also it depends a lot in your target audience, with a younger audience you can be more straightforward, because of their attention span. But if you go for a older audience (18 to 25) you can get more time and by more elegant in the writing and narrative.

theAnimeRebel
03-26-2012, 05:02 AM
okay moved this from the wrong place...(very new here)

So. *claps hands together* After sincerely purusing the tutorial section, I have deemed my question worthy enough to post here. And my question would be....

HOW THE HECK DO THEY DO IT!?!?!?!?!?

I have, let's see...a rough beginning and end to my comic...*ahem manga, series thing. I have characters (I just spent the entire day typing up the protagonist's character, actually) and a sort of-ish general idea for a plot---I even know how long I want it to be!

So here's my problem...I know how to write a manga script. I know how to come up with a plot outline thingie for a novel. But when it comes to plotting for a (longer) manga series with a definitive end...I'm stuck.

I read somewhere that you do about a paragraph per chapter, with some exceptions. As it's going for me right now though, I have an explosion of random, disjointed ideas spread out quite randomly on random index cards!
I've been looking for a formula or map or something that says "Do this here, that there, etc." One of those nice charts you pay $20 for at the bookstore and that come with a disposable writer's how-to books on the side. However, I can't find anything, in book, article, or internet tutorial shape or form.
(*sigh*...perhaps it's time I break out of my formulaic shell so to speak and just go totally guerilla...oh the pain! The work! The horror!)

So in short, how do those amazing manga-ka from Japan do it? How do you personally do it? (Outline longer series manga plots, that is)

Help, insight, wisdom, perhaps served with a steaming cup of gyoku would be greatly apreciated. Thanks for sitting through my long-ish rant.
~Rebel

Sylux
03-26-2012, 05:56 AM
U have to pace it however feels right to u

ClockHand
03-26-2012, 01:02 PM
Ugh I don't know if I understood your problem, but I guess you have a problem with story structure you I will let a link for basic narrative structure and for the Hero's Journey. I should warn you that the Hero's Journey shouldn't be used as a rule, but rather is to evaluate how you are doing things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narrative_structure

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hero_with_a_Thousand_Faces

Also, for mangakas in japan, most of them write pretty shitty stories, so is not like you should aim to be like them (there are some of them who are really good at writing stories, but most of the stories are pretty shitty).

Well hope this helps, because I really can't feel that I understood your problem.



I like a lot of animes mostly, I do read manga but, lets face it, anime is better :cat_noways:

Oh yeah, I read this from your introduction thread. I see in your future a probably bad relationship with the forum.

theAnimeRebel
03-26-2012, 04:35 PM
Heh, To tell you the truth I have no idea what my problem is either. I'm usually fine when it comes to plots, but when I sat down to do this series, I'm having all sorts of headaches. E.g.: "When do I reveal this backstory here? Where do I introduce this character? Etc...etc..." It's quite...tedious.

Anyway...what are the techniques that you use personally? (Yes, I have noticed that peculiar incident with manga-ka and their surprisingly bad plots...)

BTW, thanks for all the help so far.
-------------------

I like a lot of animes mostly, I do read manga but, lets face it, anime is better ...
^^yeah, I know...anime's really just a glorified version of manga though, with color and sound...and I do love some color in my life.

P.S. I'm a screenwriter as well, so yes I've heard about the Hero and Myth books...need to get around to reading them though...

ClockHand
03-26-2012, 04:54 PM
Specify each one of your problems so we can help you better. As for "when to present a character" is quiet hard to tell without knowing how things are going, I think the only way I can answer such a vague problem is with a vague answer: just go with the flow of the events.

I personally have no technique or strategy in writing, which is weird because I try to read a lot about narrative theory, but it's maybe because I haven't made anything finished yet and I mostly pass the time understanding how other writers over come their problems. So I can't help you in my personal experiense.
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I disagree with you that anime is better than manga. This is because your statement is equal than saying "fish is better than apples", it doesn't make any sense because you are comparing 2 different mediums. The whole narrative between a comic and a animation are too different to compare, but to tell you the true, most anime made from mangas are crap just for the fact that they don't take advantage of the narrative of their own medium but get stocked in the narrative of the source medium, which is a failure, because you are just replicating the comic with a "sense" of animation. And obviously they are just replicating the dialogues, making the anime a copy paste of the source and not a production in its own. But this debate is better to another thread, not here, so I'm not going to reply about this.

Sylux
03-26-2012, 06:11 PM
Backstories are shitty, leave a lot of stuff to mysticism or allude to the happenings, or else you're just going to end up like Tite Kubo and Masashi Kishimoto.

Bacon_Barbarian
03-26-2012, 06:12 PM
Uh. Lies and lies and slander. Oda build up pretty big backstories for his characters and it works very well.

Sylux
03-26-2012, 06:15 PM
I said a lot of stuff. This guy probably isn't on One-Piece level yet.

Bacon_Barbarian
03-26-2012, 06:40 PM
Probably not, but I wouldn't discourage someone from working on the backstory of their character. You don't want to dump it on the audience all at once, but it is important.

Sylux
03-26-2012, 07:20 PM
All I'm saying is idk if he can pull it off, say, the way Avatar did.

Bacon_Barbarian
03-26-2012, 07:39 PM
Yeah, I know what you mean. Avatar an One Piece are good example of backstory. Naruto and BLEACH ... Are not.

Matt
03-26-2012, 10:49 PM
There's an upside to how many anime and manga come out being terrible: the ones that are actually good shine a lot brighter.

Animerebel, before I say anything about your story issues, I'd like to share a bit of knowledge with you: the techniques that work for me or Clockhand or Bacon might not work for you. With that said, I approach longer stories by prewriting. I don't even think about artsy symbolism or metaphors or anything like that. It doesn't matter how clever I think my implementation of a Jesus figure or American economy metaphor is. I don't even think about that until later. I usually separate the story into major events and number them, usually from one to ten. I give a brief description of each event and then start rough sketches.

Since I've finished a book, but never actually finished a manga (even a one-shot), I can't give you much advice beyond that. So start with the story and then move on to the drawings. Personally, assuming I'd be able to actually do it someday, I'd start with the draft pages before doing any serious drawing.


I like a lot of animes mostly, I do read manga but, lets face it, anime is better ...
I'd argue against you there, as your position isn't so much untrue as just missing a lot of further implications, but like Clockhand said, that's an issue for a different thread.

theAnimeRebel
03-27-2012, 03:35 PM
Thanks for the feedback ya'll. (Were Bacon and Sylux talking about me? Doesn't really work out that well in a forum you know...;) )

Anyway, after much thought and prespiration, I think I've come up with a way to go with it. (Hey, maybe if it actually turns out well, I could do a tutorial or something...)
I started out with a big sheet o' paper, and randomly writing a bunch of words connected to the title. This got my creative nitro going, so to speak, and gave me a lot of episode ideas.
I'll structure the series according to the three point formula. You know, intro, middle, resolution...I'm stretching it out into three parts for the whole series, tweaking as needed.
For the episodes, I'll write em' all out on index cards and arrange them until it looks good.
So yeah, I think I've got a plan going.
@Matt-actually, I've already got drawings going...the characters were my inspiration
@Bacon-No clue what One Piece has to do with it...(*ahem, excuse the randomness
@Everyone-Didn't mean to rub you the wrong way. I posted the anime-manga thing in the welcome thread as a joke and had no intention of it being taken so seriously. Sheesh we're serious on here! o.O

Bacon_Barbarian
03-27-2012, 07:17 PM
One Piece has very well done backstories. If you're wondering about how to try and create a good backstory check out how it's done in One Piece - Pacing, development, whatever.

ram
04-06-2012, 10:54 AM
I like hunter x hunter better in than Onepiece when it comes to story lines though..
I'd like to advice to look more into FMA if you want to learn how to make a good long story, it might not be that long but you can see how everything of how stuffs connected to one another.

I mean if you haven't watched/read Onepiece yet and you'll have to start to episode/chapter 1 then I don't know when will be the time when you'll actually make your story.


I like a lot of animes mostly, I do read manga but, lets face it, anime is better ...
I would probably agree if it's Naruto, Bleach or Onepiece or most of TVtokyo productions.
If you want to know why everyone disagree with this try to watch something like Black Cat or Gantz then read the manga and you'll probably see why we're so disappointed on how anime turns out

ram
05-04-2012, 04:24 AM
I don't know what happened to this thread,, but I don't see double posting bad thing to do in this situation
http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee388/skyramiel/GreaterMythology-6.jpg
you know what's anoying about making massive backgrounds, is that it gets too messy, I'm having trouble if I should just rewrite the whole thing or just clean it up.. either way does takes a lot of time and effort cause toning would be a problem if lines isn't right..

Anyways I've mastered more tone less ink type of style. (atleast I think I did)

ClockHand
05-04-2012, 04:41 AM
its gets too messy 'cuz you are drawing everything. You don't need to draw every book on the shelters or every line to define their dimensions. You just need to create illusions, let the watcher finish the shapes of the objects.

ram
05-04-2012, 04:56 AM
Frankly I don't know how to make that type of illusion... almost every manga that I read that has library books that has always been detailed..
Negima book 2
Black cat- I don't remember what book
The world God Only knows

perhaps you can show me some reference?
edot:
This is something I did before Btw, It might be not that bad but it's depth is quite wrong in so many ways,
Yeah I want it to have the impression of a "Massive place"
http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee388/skyramiel/GreaterMythology-7.jpg

Sylux
05-05-2012, 09:37 AM
Clock are we doing something with your comic manuscript or what.

ClockHand
05-05-2012, 01:27 PM
Yeah, Jen's being a little complicated with life vs work, so everything have been slow. I will start helping with the story board tomorrow, as I also have some stuffs to do.

But yeah, we are working on it, a slow work, but we are working.

eltoroguaco
06-01-2012, 06:55 PM
I got a project going on... only got the main character drawn and the plot written so far. Will do more before starting it so will take some time. If you wanna hear I can write down a short preview of it for you guys to read and discuss.
FYI. It's in my world so names on weapons, vehicles, species, plants and areas might be a bit confusing to you... but you can learn to know it during the comcis if I ever get that far. Else, I will upload written details about the word as well as maps on my deviantart page.