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Harima_Kenji
01-03-2012, 07:09 AM
Some of you may still remember this but i need to know your opinions about this matter

Is it possible to construct a real life robot (close to gundam) that is actually capable in warfare?

Superdooperphailmachine
01-03-2012, 07:38 AM
Not at the moment.

Harvester_Of_Sorrow
01-03-2012, 09:01 AM
^ Agreed. Not right now, but it certainly is within the realms of science.

Fenn
01-03-2012, 10:47 AM
Not a humanoid one (at the moment), but we already have robots fighting. We have small robots that move on treads with machine guns attached to the top, I forget the name of them.

ClockHand
01-03-2012, 11:46 AM
Gundams are not robots, they are more like big armor/tanks. If you are asking that then it is almost impossible at the moment and in many years ahead, and probably when it become possible it will become a waste of time.

For bipedal robots, it still not possible, but I think we are in a good road. And as Fenn said, there are already robots used in warfare, they are just smaller and closer to a radio control car than a big robot.

CypressDahlia
01-03-2012, 05:03 PM
I don't think you could build a gundam-scale machine that will move with the same speed and grace as a gundam. Mechwarrior and Battletech, Steel Battalion are better examples. It's never going to be as orchestrated as gundam fights instead mechs will probably operate like walking tanks where it just comes down to who can fire more ammo and tank more shots.

Sylux
01-03-2012, 05:21 PM
You could build something similar to the fictional FENRIS Mech

jubeh
01-03-2012, 10:44 PM
I don't think you could build a gundam-scale machine that will move with the same speed and grace as a gundam. Mechwarrior and Battletech, Steel Battalion are better examples. It's never going to be as orchestrated as gundam fights instead mechs will probably operate like walking tanks where it just comes down to who can fire more ammo and tank more shots.

Yeah if anyone it would be like the battletech tabletop. Just a slugging match where you question what the point of having giant robots was in the first place.

GunZet
01-04-2012, 12:19 AM
What it usually comes down to is most people saying bipedal mechs would be unconventional and next to useless. And that the more probably thing would be walking tanks. I'd say something more close to suppression mechs, as I can't see one running into the frontlines and surviving. Not in the next two decades at least.

ClockHand
01-04-2012, 12:32 AM
Why someone would do a bipedal tank? its like the worst idea ever, tanks have an almost perfect mobility for warfare, while bipedal movement makes any machine almost impossible to me driven, is a waste of energy and it easily stopped (very dependable of the ground).

GunZet
01-04-2012, 03:25 AM
Which is why wheeled and treaded tanks are pretty much gonna be around like... a really long time. They're practical and handle the terrain great. Can't slip or trip over a rock with wheels or whatever.

Sylux
01-04-2012, 06:11 AM
Fucking ellipses this must be a Fenn alt ban him Jubeh

GunZet
01-05-2012, 04:34 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTnxP7e7-YA&feature=player_embedded

Bacon_Barbarian
01-05-2012, 04:46 PM
Someone fix the ellipses in the title... Ugggh.

Celestial-Fox
01-05-2012, 09:18 PM
Wahh, there's an ellipsis in the thread title and I can't see page 2. :<

Kodos
01-06-2012, 01:06 AM
No it is not and never will be. Except, maybe, space, there is no battleground where a humanoid vehicle will be superior to a conventional one.

Unless you're Dagoth Ur.
http://i.imgur.com/yJ5ux.jpg
Problem, Nerevarine?

Rio
01-06-2012, 11:06 AM
I think there will be just a handful of working models because of fans of those types of mechas but realistically, they're really cumbersome. I think more of a suit of armor a la Bubblegum Crisis is more likely. The way technology is; everything is getting smaller and smaller. Why go the opposite way and make something laughably enormous, cumbersome and a big walking target for the enemy?

Sylux
01-06-2012, 01:01 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTnxP7e7-YA&feature=player_embedded

LOKI?
http://images.wikia.com/masseffect/images/6/6a/LOKI_Mech.jpg

GunZet
01-06-2012, 01:09 PM
Smarter Loki.

Sylux
01-06-2012, 01:10 PM
Lol yeah

Fenn
01-10-2012, 11:39 AM
What about different types of war machines, not necessarily bipedal. I imagine with proper engineering an arachnid-style vehicle could have some impressive mobility.

ClockHand
01-10-2012, 11:53 AM
No, still it would be very dependable of the ground and it would waste a lot of energy, also you need to add the advantage of the rotative canon of a tank and how the strength of the recoil of the canon affect the gravity center of the vehicle.

I think, if we talk about a new type of vehicle for warfare, it would be something that float. But for this we need to develop new types of energy, new type of weapons and new materials for its weight/protection.

Black_Shaggie
01-10-2012, 12:17 PM
I dunno guys...call me crazy (and you'd most certainly be right)...but I think it is possible. No anywhere near our present or future mind you, but it's doable. I think Cype's right about mecha that are more in the design of Mechwarrior being more practical but Rio's right by saying there's enough mecha fans out there to aspire for more truly bipedal models.

I'm actually no big fan of mecha. But it seems apparent to me that with man's desire to recreate stuff in his image that a giant robot with the destructive capability of a battleship is possible. Like I said call me crazy. I remember reading old Appleseeds where even in their futuristic society there were Land-mates used in construction. Same thing in Patlabor too. This type of application is more logical to me than warfare.

But that's just my opinion.

CypressDahlia
01-10-2012, 12:28 PM
It would just be one giant robot that is very big and very slow, at best.

Also I don't think our joint technology is enough to support such high pressure and stress, nevertheless the heat that would be produced to move tons of steel at the speed of human reflex. The energy consumption would be insane and it would destroy the material it's made of. In other words: no Gundam.

Black_Shaggie
01-10-2012, 12:46 PM
Right no Gundam, no Zeno Gears, no Escaflowne. Nothing fancy at all. Smaller mecha? More like the powered battle suits being developed by military's today? I think there's something tangible there. Of course, there are a few issues to get around. The joint technology for one. If we can't articulate the damned thing fully (or at least almost fully) it being bipedal becomes a hindrence. The materials used to make it need to be considered too. Honestly, steel is way too heavy but there's other stuff that could be developed or maybe even stranger lighter alloys. Then there's the power source. Gas? Fuck no! Nuclear power? I doubt that too. Go green with solar power? Yes with an rechargeable electric battery(s).

But I'm talking about 10'-12' tall 'battle suits' like the land mates in Appleseed. Again, the materials used need to be lighter & stronger of course & robotic engineers are developing new ways to articulate robots everyday. The power source is the real issue.

Sylux
01-10-2012, 04:06 PM
It would just be one giant robot that is very big and very slow, at best.

Also I don't think our joint technology is enough to support such high pressure and stress, nevertheless the heat that would be produced to move tons of steel at the speed of human reflex. The energy consumption would be insane and it would destroy the material it's made of. In other words: no Gundam.

YMIR.
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100823065114/masseffect/images/thumb/c/cb/Citadel_Garrus_Loyalty_YMIR_nuke.png/830px-Citadel_Garrus_Loyalty_YMIR_nuke.png

Cloudy
01-10-2012, 04:42 PM
Have u guys seen this thing?

its no mecha but still...O.O it can walk on different surfaces and stabilise itself

They are working on it alright....its pretty scary what this thing can do, I think it is intended as some kind of supply carrying unit for now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1czBcnX1Ww

Evil_Cake
01-10-2012, 04:44 PM
i luv big dog

Sylux
01-10-2012, 04:44 PM
Have u guys seen this thing?

its no mecha but still...O.O

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1czBcnX1Ww
FENRIS

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100212224410/masseffect/images/thumb/9/9b/FENRIS.png/830px-FENRIS.png

ClockHand
01-10-2012, 04:51 PM
I don't know, but everything that use legs to walk is downgrading actual technology.

Sylux
01-10-2012, 04:55 PM
But it's most realistic in a combat setting, especially when we're talking about mass production for, say, a very powerful security force.

ClockHand
01-10-2012, 05:01 PM
Realistic? What do you mean?

I think continuous tracks are the most efficient mechanism for movements. And with a rotative canon you have the most efficient weapon for combat and warfare.

Sylux
01-10-2012, 05:06 PM
Oh oh tracks you know I thought you were talking about pressurized air mobility and that is expensive

ClockHand
01-10-2012, 05:10 PM
What? No.

I'm just saying that continuous tracks are the best mechanism for movement, and that bipedal, quadrupedal or any mechanism that us legs is downgrading technology. Like the best that quadrupedal movement can do it would be to go up stairs, but ones you are developing the technology for that you can make continuous tracks to be able to do that too.

Sylux
01-10-2012, 05:10 PM
Good point

GunZet
01-10-2012, 05:21 PM
Tracks is your best bet for reliable mobility, especially over rough terrain. Now if you can figure out how to make something that has the flexibility and sense of a human or any highly agile creature, then there's a bit of a game changer. Otherwise you're gonna end up with C3PO shit.

Siaman
01-10-2012, 07:23 PM
building a huge robot would not be wise specially the amount of metal you will use to build one... unless you are fighting a huge alien. lol

Sylux
01-10-2012, 07:31 PM
Um not true at all. We build tanks and fighters, right? That takes a lot of metal.

Siaman
01-10-2012, 08:12 PM
i mean building a life size gundam...

ClockHand
01-10-2012, 08:14 PM
I think materials are the least problem.

Kodos
01-10-2012, 08:57 PM
They aren't a problem. The problem is not the size, or anything else. The problem is that anything remotely humanoid is a terrible shape for something that's going to be fighting a war on a planet to be.

AlmanacnamedTime
01-10-2012, 09:01 PM
it would be possible. but really expensive.

ClockHand
01-10-2012, 09:04 PM
it would be possible. but really expensive.

Not possible. Why people don't read the posts?

Kodos
01-10-2012, 09:06 PM
Well it's possible, Clock. Just stupid beyond belief. You could make a giant bipedal robot, sure, it just won't be able to fight worth shit and odds are it will be a miracle if you can make the dumb thing run without falling over or just falling apart.

The humanoid bodyplan is good at certain things. Being a giant robot is not one of them.

ClockHand
01-10-2012, 09:40 PM
I don't see it as possible now (and even if in the future become possible, it will just be retarded). The deal is that we don't have energy source for it, we are still trying to imitate bipedal movement in smaller robots, we can't solve the weight problem and no one would be able to drive it because of the amount of vibrations and movement inside a cabin (someone have to drive this shit to the moon).

And as you said, bipedal movement is too clumsy and dangerous. If in the future (far, far, far future) we have a new form of movement, it will be something that float or that we can teleport and can operate by itself.

Sylux
01-10-2012, 09:48 PM
But it's still possible, Clock. Impossibility is a concept rarely used in our language - as far as we know, everything is possible concerning greater or more complicated maths and sciences.

ClockHand
01-10-2012, 09:49 PM
But it's still possible, Clock. Impossibility is a concept rarely used in our language - as far as we know, everything is possible concerning greater or more complicated maths and sciences.

fuck you

yeah i know lol. I think I just went to in extreme.

Sylux
01-10-2012, 09:52 PM
Oh okay for a second there it got really intense. I didn't mean any insult by it, it's just that I haven't learned physics yet and have nothing more to add than mech pictures and semantics. Sorry about it, though the 'lol' is reassuring.

AllyNidhogg
01-18-2012, 01:47 PM
I think it's possible, but that would be tremendously expensive and time-consuming at the moment. I'd say that time will tell, to be honest.

Kodos
01-18-2012, 03:22 PM
It's not a question whether you think it's possible or not. This is a simple question of physics which can be answered with confidence. The laws of physics are such that a humanoid war vehicle will never ever be practical for use in a combat zone even remotely like the Earth. Maybe, just maybe, in deep space, and maybe just maybe in some ultra light gravity environment, but even then there are more practical shapes than humanoid - it's just that in those cases a humanoid shape would be acceptable rather than completely stupid.

Delphinus
01-22-2012, 12:05 PM
Wouldn't smaller (human-sized) humanoid robots make more sense, anyway?

BozeSG
01-22-2012, 12:16 PM
but you can't ride human sized robots...

CypressDahlia
01-22-2012, 12:37 PM
I'm sure if we had the technology to reproduce human capability in a robot, a humanoid one would be the best option. Our bodies are suited to do a lot of things. But we don't have that technology. Gundams aren't possible, but if they were possible they would be a dominant force.

GunZet
01-22-2012, 01:50 PM
Aren't Gundams just nukes walking? I mean, if one effs up, or gets destroyed, it's game over. Makes you sorta think, if we actually did have this tech, what would be the power source. I bet it'd have to be something significantly more than what's used in a nuclear sub, if we're talking Gundam sized mechs here.

CypressDahlia
01-22-2012, 02:01 PM
yeah I have no idea rofl. It would be a miracle if we could even get a machine to move that gracefully and quickly.

Ozzaharwood
01-22-2012, 02:08 PM
Yeah, you'd need a lot of lube. (ノ ̄ー ̄)ノ

Well, if we were to discover something like cold fusion (which Stephen Hawking predicts we will, whether it be 100 years from now or 100,000) it could be possible.

Delphinus
01-22-2012, 02:50 PM
There's a lot of money going into fusion research at the moment, and I think you mean that rather than cold fusion, which is generally believed to be a pseudoscience.

However, at the moment all designs for a potential fusion reactor (none that return a net positive energy output have yet been made) require technology so large and weighty that the only conceivable use for them is in stationary power plants. It's probable that this technology will get smaller over time, but it's still so complex and expensive that whether it would ever be worth using in a war machine is debatable.

It seems more likely that power-storing technology will advance and fusion will simply create the electricity that's used to power mechanisms such as electric cars, small humanoid robots, etc. Not that I see why fusion is necessary - aside from the public stigma against fission, there's no reason to fund fusion research instead of fission plants.