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View Full Version : ACTA: How to destroy humanity and freedom of speech.



Hell_Baron
12-17-2011, 06:07 PM
Hey guys,
I've been hearing all kinds of shit about SOPA lately, of course i am very interested how this will turn out, so i decided to nose around on the web looking for some info on the subject. However, during my search i stumbeled across something much more fucked up, named ACTA (or Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement). What this law does is basicly the same as SOPA, with the exception that it's worldwide and has a couple of extra bullshit laws like halting the production of medicine for life-threathening diseases or certain kinds of crops. These are just a couple of examples of what we will get if this thing passes.

If you want to know more about this, watch either the enclosed video or the article on Wikipedia.

Here's the video:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=citzRjwk-sQ

And here's the article on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Counterfeiting_Trade_Agreement

Mistrus
01-18-2012, 01:21 PM
Just found out about it and that video explained a lot to me. Thanks for sharing.


ACTA is ridiculous, I can't even count how many of the rights in the Canadian Privacy Act this is breaking. And its world-wide, this is just ridiculous.

ClockHand
01-18-2012, 01:37 PM
Its the american dream.

Kodos
01-18-2012, 03:23 PM
The fact people care more about SOPA and PIPA and ACTA than they did about the NDAA is why America is fucking doomed. This is what we deserve.

jubeh
01-18-2012, 03:27 PM
Blacking out the dungeons and dragons threads in protest

toast
01-18-2012, 03:34 PM
I'm just going to go live on the moon, who's with me?

Joosh
01-18-2012, 03:44 PM
Yeah toast, we can repopulate and everything!

GunZet
01-18-2012, 03:48 PM
The fact people care more about SOPA and PIPA and ACTA than they did about the NDAA is why America is fucking doomed. This is what we deserve.

We ain't the only ones that're doomed.

Mistrus
01-18-2012, 05:11 PM
I oppose ACTA no just for the internet censorship but for the seed and medication restrictions they can impose. Its ridiculous that the government would even think about restricting their people like that.

ClockHand
01-18-2012, 05:14 PM
its USA, its quiet normal if you think what country are we talking about.

Kodos
01-18-2012, 05:23 PM
It's always adorable when people are so naive they don't realize America is a third world dictatorship. I just want to pinch their cheeks.

Hamachi
01-18-2012, 06:27 PM
*Clicks on the Wikipedia link*

Derp, forgot Wikipedia's down today.

GunZet
01-18-2012, 06:29 PM
Just stop the page from loading before it goes black.

Fenn
01-18-2012, 06:38 PM
It's always adorable when people are so naive they don't realize America is a third world dictatorship. I just want to pinch their cheeks.

You must pinch EVERYONES cheeks then.

Kodos
01-18-2012, 06:41 PM
Not everyone is that naive.

GunZet
01-18-2012, 06:43 PM
http://www.vice.com/read/pipa-supporters-copyright-violations

Fenn
01-18-2012, 06:44 PM
Not everyone is that naive.

I could count the number of people I've met who believe American is a third word dictatorship on my fingers, and you'd be one of them. And although I haven't travelled much, I've met my share of people. Regardless of how many people aren't that naive, they're certainly VASTLY outnumbered by the number who are.

Kodos
01-18-2012, 06:55 PM
America is a nation where the government has the power to throw you in a gulag forever without so much as charging you with a crime, let alone giving you a fucking trial. Half the country is living in poverty.

If that does not meet an objective definition of third world dictatorship, I can't imagine what does.

Fenn
01-18-2012, 07:00 PM
America is a nation where the government has the power to throw you in a gulag forever without so much as charging you with a crime, let alone giving you a fucking trial. Half the country is living in poverty.

If that does not meet an objective definition of third world dictatorship, I can't imagine what does.

Pardon, where did I ever suggest I disagree with you? I said most people don't realize it is, hence you must pinch quite a lot of cheeks.

Kodos
01-18-2012, 07:05 PM
Ah, k, misread, apologies. And I said I want to pinch cheeks, not that I do.

Bacon_Barbarian
01-18-2012, 07:13 PM
The fact people care more about SOPA and PIPA and ACTA than they did about the NDAA is why America is fucking doomed. This is what we deserve.

I think most people who follow the news and knew about the NDAA were sufficiently worried. The problem is that people didn't know about it.


It's always adorable when people are so naive they don't realize America is a third world dictatorship. I just want to pinch their cheeks.

Except third world (basically) means that most people live in mud shacks, dont have running water, and have never even seen an actual computer.

GunZet
01-18-2012, 07:40 PM
We're like, fourth world or something. You know, that point where you have all that power, but treat your people like shit, and everything basically sucks. Or am I describing NK?

Kodos
01-18-2012, 07:43 PM
I'd say 'third world' in the common parlance describes any nation sufficiently stricken with poverty and corruption.

If 50% poverty rate is not poverty, I don't know what it is. And if I have to explain how America is corrupt or how our police are jackbooted thugs and the enemy of the people, I don't know where to start.

Fuck America, fuck the police.

Fenn
01-18-2012, 07:45 PM
Ah, k, misread, apologies. And I said I want to pinch cheeks, not that I do.

I guess that is an important clarification...

Also, when the crap hits the fan in American where's a good country to flee to?

GunZet
01-18-2012, 07:52 PM
Canada.

jubeh
01-18-2012, 07:53 PM
Mexico is a much more stable country

Fenn
01-18-2012, 07:53 PM
Canada.

Not too far, and I like the cold. Seems like a good fit. How's the political situation up there?

GunZet
01-18-2012, 08:05 PM
Dunno. If the shit hits the fan I'm off to the UK, assuming I don't get chibbed.

Hayashida
01-18-2012, 08:08 PM
Not too far, and I like the cold. Seems like a good fit. How's the political situation up there?

The Prime Minister rules with an iron fist

Fenn
01-18-2012, 08:08 PM
Dunno. If the shit hits the fan I'm off to the UK, assuming I don't get chibbed.

Okay if U.S. cracks first, I'll come up there, otherwise see you in the U.K. Aren't hey in deep doo doo too though?

Lol can't believe I'm even talking about this.

ClockHand
01-18-2012, 08:28 PM
Go to North Korea. Its has a way better situation right now jajajaja

Fenn
01-18-2012, 08:29 PM
Go to North Korea. Its has a way better situation right now jajajaja

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/001771495/2811246957_OhYOU_answer_2_xlarge.jpeg

Bacon_Barbarian
01-18-2012, 08:38 PM
Guys. France.

Mistrus
01-18-2012, 08:55 PM
its USA, its quiet normal if you think what country are we talking about.


I know this is a few pages back but I had to say something. SOPA and PIPA are from the US, ACTA on the other hand, is the brain child of 39 different countries. Eight countries, the United States, Australia, Canada, Japan, Morocco, New Zealand, Singapore, and South Korea have signed ACTA. This isn't just the States, this is everywhere.




@everyone else: I suggest Canada, if you look at the financial aspect we are more stable all around since the recession. We weren't hit as hard. If you want to move to Canada, I suggest Saskatchewan, it has improved the mos tin the past five years than any other province. (That could just be me though, I love Saskatchewan.)

Bacon_Barbarian
01-19-2012, 05:42 PM
France has 5 weeks payed leave you can take whenever you want. And it' guaranteed. So...

Psy
01-19-2012, 06:03 PM
Remember keep the posts relevant to the topic. Getting a bit off topic.

GunZet
01-19-2012, 06:07 PM
ACTA is bad, PIPA is bad, SOPA is bad, NDAA is bad, they should all be destroyed by means of fire or brute force.
Been hearing a lot of stuff about how most of these dudes that support SOPA and those others have been continually breaking their own written laws, lol.

Although maybe we should've concentrated on the NDAA before it became... you know, law. Hm.

Bacon_Barbarian
01-19-2012, 06:15 PM
So, I'm really confused. One of my State's Senators is a co-sponsor of PIPA, but he also sent a letter with some other dude demanding that the contents of ACTA and it's deliberation be made public. Yay Sherrod Brown?

Mistrus
01-19-2012, 07:16 PM
That's kinda redundant isn't it? Or is it ironic? He's rabid over ACTA but supports PIPA, they are doing the same thing, censoring the internet.

Hell_Baron
01-20-2012, 07:46 AM
That's probably because he's being bribed by lobbyists to support PIPA

ClockHand
01-20-2012, 11:43 AM
Have you guys watched "This Movie is not yet Rated"? Its about MPAA, the rating system of movies that it's have become a mechanism of censorship that many directors struggle with it.

GunZet
01-20-2012, 11:45 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/u-shutters-megaupload-com-hackers-retaliate-011423326.html

FFFFFFFFFFF

Hell_Baron
01-20-2012, 11:51 AM
It's starting...

GunZet
01-20-2012, 12:09 PM
I dunno, I mean, I'm sure the peeps were getting tons of money for what basically was a site used for piracy anyway, just more underground. Sorta like Limewire was before it got shutdown. But why Mega? You have the sites with the most obvious names out there, and Mega gets shut down? lol.

Delphinus
01-20-2012, 12:26 PM
Fuck that. They're saying that owners of websites should be responsible for all content posted to them. So 4chan can be shut down for hosting child pornography or even pirated porn, despite the fact that the person who posted it is solely responsible for its appearance on the site. .gifs of copyrighted material would be illegal, as would stills.

This would kill Web 2.0 and make all websites static, uninteractive entities. It would destroy huge quantities of jobs in web programming. It would kill internet entrepreneurship and hacker (not cracker) culture. The entire point of the internet would be lost. How are you supposed to share information when the slightest whiff of copyrighted material on an unauthorised website allows that website to be destroyed?

This is against the stated goals of the internet. More than that, it's against democracy.

CypressDahlia
01-20-2012, 12:40 PM
SOPA is dumb in the sense that it would kill the internet as a marketing platform. Downloadable content and online shopping is the best and most convenient way to get products to customers. In the long run companies will hurt themselves for not jumping on the opportunity to expand into online service.

But uhh...about the third world country thing. I lived in one for the first 8 years of my life. US doesn't even come close please stop being so sensationalist.

Delphinus
01-20-2012, 12:44 PM
Sensationalist? Kodos?

Never.

Hell_Baron
01-20-2012, 01:27 PM
Well, the good thing is that a large part of the US congress is against SOPA/PIPA

the bad news is that the people who are backing the bills have a lot more finances than the opposition.

GunZet
01-22-2012, 02:32 AM
:cat_tea:http://tech.pnosker.com/2012/01/20/sopa-and-pipa-dropped-by-congress-in-wake-of-largest-online-protest-in-history/

CypressDahlia
01-22-2012, 02:49 AM
Well I think people kind of missed the point of SOPA anyway. It was never about censorship, it was about protecting IP. As an artist I can respect that. There is nothing //wrong// with someone protecting the ownership of something that's rightfully theirs. It's not censorship if we were never entitled to use the IP in the first place. The censorship practiced in foreign countries puts limitations on what you can say or express, so to say SOPA is even comparable is kind of dumb. It's just protecting copyrights. I think we're just so used to using other peoples' IP that we're afraid of not being able to express ourselves by proxy. Like we'd actually have to create shit, and think about shit instead of just taking advantage of someone else's creativity. Maybe we're just uncomfortable with being creative.

Either way the only thing stupid about SOPA was a lack of solid stipulation and ruining the internet as a potential marketplace. To say it violated any kind of civil rights is a stretch.

And I'm pretty sure 99% of those 13 million people were just pissed off because it meant it would be harder to get things for free.

GunZet
01-22-2012, 03:05 AM
And I'm pretty sure 99% of those 13 million people were just pissed off because it meant it would be harder to get things for free.
This is all you needed to say. Well, more like 75% Pissed pirates, 15% Didn't know wtf was going on in the first place, but heard it was about the internets, and 10% Legit.

CypressDahlia
01-22-2012, 03:16 AM
Yeah I'm gonna miss Megaupload. /arrrrrrrr~

GunZet
01-22-2012, 03:22 AM
Megaupload was simply a martyr. Although I must say I'll miss it.

SuperKasey
01-22-2012, 04:17 AM
I'd say 'third world' in the common parlance describes any nation sufficiently stricken with poverty and corruption.

If 50% poverty rate is not poverty, I don't know what it is. And if I have to explain how America is corrupt or how our police are jackbooted thugs and the enemy of the people, I don't know where to start.

Fuck America, fuck the police.

Um yeah except for the fact that the poverty line as defined by America is a lot better than the poverty line as defined by a true third world country. In America people below the poverty line still eat, take showers, go to school and play video games. If you're talking about people in America who are truly starving, living on the street, sick and dying because of a lack of income then that number falls well below 50%

By all means, lets see what happens when we remove the police from society.

The problem we're facing is that humans don't know how to moderate themselves. There is no happy medium for us as we constantly want more. We want more money, more property, more power and once we get that we only find more things that we are in want of. Right now the parties that will benefit from laws such as ACTA are upset because a little bit of their billion dollar income is getting scraped off due to piracy. Instead of coming up with innovative ways to generate income to make up for the loss they run screaming and crying to their friends in office to make it all better and teach a lesson to those keeping them from buying another addition to their Ferrari collection.

Hell_Baron
01-22-2012, 07:41 AM
Goddammit, Lamar Smith is at it again!
apparently he's creating a bill that's supposed to combat child pornography, by monitoring everyone 24/7, monitoring your credit card information and saving all the browser history for 18 months. meaning if they see you do anything suspicious, they'll send a partyvan on your ass. When the hell will this guy start to understand the internet?!

Ozzaharwood
01-22-2012, 10:25 AM
This is all you needed to say. Well, more like 75% Pissed pirates, 15% Didn't know wtf was going on in the first place, but heard it was about the internets, and 10% Legit.

I'm neither of those. I'll be mad because my anime sites will be closed down, making it impossible to watch anime without importing it or unless Funimation releases it here. That means no more watching ongoing series, and some anime may be impossible to find in stores.

Plus what they are doing is wrong anyway. A movement to adjust infrastructure will hopefully be put into action if SOPA/PIPA are passed, as the American government is using the Internet to impose American laws outside of American borders. If they continue this, they'll be able to shut down any site at any time. There are rumours going around that they may shut down photoshack. I mean, c'mon? How are images lowering any of their income?

CypressDahlia
01-22-2012, 10:47 AM
Hell_Baron, there's really nothing to understand about "the internet". Much like the real world, we'll never have any privacy because our society is based so heavily in licensing, paperwork and bureaucracy. Just about every single thing we do has some form, signature or barcode attached to it. In other words, our bank statements and internet history have never been a secret. If you ever been/known anyone that's been to court, it's surprising how quickly the state can dig up your info.

On the other hand, all that for child pornography is kind of dumb. Millions of man hours and dollars in government wages would go into monitoring every single person for something that barely has an internet presence. CP, unlike pirating, is far from the "norm" on the internet. It's pretty much forbidden territory. So watching EVERYONE for something that //few// people are vendoring is a waste of resources. Though some areas on /b get dangerously close to child predation...

Ozzaharwood
01-22-2012, 10:57 AM
Actually, it does get that far sometimes, lol. I have a feeling if this does go through, they are going to have a real hard time with 4Chan and Anonymous.

It'll be like this:

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/402312_281149245272386_178886562165322_705296_1782 035934_n.jpg

CypressDahlia
01-22-2012, 11:04 AM
I doubt that'll get very far. Anonymous is kind of delusional like that. Yeah they may have a dozen "l337 haxorz" but they don't have a police force at their call and beck, and they don't have a military. You've seen how civilian uprisings of any form end up. Until the UN guilt trips and steps in to intervene, people are just getting beat and arrested 24/7.

Psy
01-22-2012, 11:04 AM
If any of these bills are passed and people are charged with what ever you want to call it (copyright infringement mostly right?) then what? Where are these people going? There will surely be allot of them so are they planning on spending more money for more prisons? Aren't the prisons grossly over populated as it is now and they want to just add more? I doubt they could handle the wave of new prisoners coming in and manage to keep them all in even a semi safe humane facility. Then if no prison sentence just a huge fine? So charge a huge sum of money to these people for not being able to afford stuff in the first place? I know it's theft and that they shouldn't have taken it but either way there would have been no profit made by the company that sells that product anyways and those stealing probably aren't profiting off of the stolen product anyways.

CypressDahlia
01-22-2012, 11:22 AM
TBH, I doubt the government is stupid enough (yes, I doubt our government is stupid) to arrest every single person that pirates. When you think about copyright crackdowns, they've only taken place when a significant portion of bandwidth is dedicated to the traffic of pirated media (Napster, WinNy, Megaupload, Kazaa). So, in the end, SOPA would not have ended pirating. It would've just made it slightly more difficult. At best, we'd see major file-sharing and P2P services closed down, a few dozen people arrested, and more muted videos on Youtube. And copyrights aren't about profit, they're about royalties. If you're making any kind of money off of another person's IP, they are entitled to a certain cut. So even if they aren't making profit off the direct sale of a product, they are guaranteed some form of reimbursement. And, believe it or not, people do make tons of money off of web traffic. Where it goes, nobody knows, but it exists.

As for the whole "couldn't afford it" thing. I can't really sympathize. I mean copyright/trademark/patent laws have existed for the longest time. We've been warned about them constantly. So it's not like we're blindsided by all of this. I think people are very aware of the potential consequences of things they do, they just don't care until the rules are being enforced.

But yeah, like I said, as an artist, I can respect the desire to protect one's IP. I mean didn't we have a thread on old MT about how creative commons didn't fully protect artists' IP and everyone was like pissed off and now we're mad cuz other people are trying to protect their creative assets.

Bacon_Barbarian
01-22-2012, 11:51 AM
Either way, they're shelved for now. The new thing is OPEN. Which is better to some degree at least.

CypressDahlia
01-22-2012, 11:52 AM
You know. They really need to get over this fucking four letter acronym thing.

Bacon_Barbarian
01-22-2012, 11:54 AM
Technically it should be OPEDTA, but that's much more annoying. And OPEN sounds like a nice thing, even if it actually isn't. It's all part of the politics.

Hell_Baron
01-23-2012, 10:34 AM
Well, it seems that ACTA is getting a bit more "popular".
Just read an article about it on Destructoid, claiming it would only affect the EU.
One other thing that's quitte peculiar is that Obama actually signed ACTA. I'm sorry, what?
Meaning that his veto against SOPA/PIPA was probably meant to be possibly re-elected.

Just a little sidenote, you guys did sign petitions against ACTA, right?

EDIT:

And what do you know, companies are taking rights into own hands.
just take a look at this:


Now, to be clear. Fan art is legal to produce and sell as long as it is reasonably different from the source material. The wording is pretty vague and open to interpretation but, generally speaking, if it's your own art work then you're fine. Further, quotes can be placed on items and sold as much as you want. You can't copyright quotes. Since it's so vague, even copyright nazis like Disney send warnings before they send lawyers.

Well, now that we have that all set up. Let's get to the meat of the matter. EA, apparently, heard about Etsy. A site where art and crafts are sold. To celebrate the up coming Mass Effect 3 game, they went onto Etsy and did a search for Mass Effect. They then demanded Etsy take down every single item. It didn't matter the content, subject, legal or not, if it was a button that said "Mass Effect sux", if it had the tag Mass Effect it was demanded to be removed. Proving... yet again... if there's a chance to be douche bags, EA is there.

As Etsy becomes more popular, more companies are doing this. Just recently, CBS carpet bombed anything to do with The Office. A friend of ours found this out when their item, a button that said "That's what she said" was a fatality in said carpet bombing. Further, the Etsy lawyer was extremely rude to her when she attempted to dispute it. Even though it says IN the Etsy guidelines that quotes are legal.

Fox did the same last month for anything to do with Futurama.

source: The Escapist forums

On another sidenote: several downloading sites have been taken offline.
These are: Fileserve, Uploaded, Filepost, Hotfile, 4shared and Mediafire.

And as a bonus, a video from everyone's favorite gamereviewer, Jim Sterling.

<div style='width:650px;font-size: 12px;'><embed src="http://cdn2.themis-media.com/media/global/movies/player/flowplayer.commercial-3.2.7.swf" flashvars="config=http://www.themis-media.com/videos/config/5268-4276bbacef9a67e9fd5fe673f1180276.js%3Fplayer_versi on%3D2.5%26embed%3D1" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" quality="high" bgcolor="#000000" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.adobe.com/go/getflashplayer" width="650" height="391" wmode="opaque"></embed><div><a href='http://www.escapistmagazine.com'>The Escapist</a> : <a href='http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition'>Jimquisition</a> : <a href='/videos/view/jimquisition/5268-Piracy-Episode-One-Copyright'>Piracy Episode One - Copyright</a></div></div>

ClockHand
01-23-2012, 01:52 PM
http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/stand-together-the-gaming-community-vs-sopa-and-pipa

Don't Support E3 this year.

GunZet
01-23-2012, 01:57 PM
Well, it seems that ACTA is getting a bit more "popular".
Just read an article about it on Destructoid, claiming it would only affect the EU.
One other thing that's quitte peculiar is that Obama actually signed ACTA. I'm sorry, what?
Meaning that his veto against SOPA/PIPA was probably meant to be possibly re-elected.

Just a little sidenote, you guys did sign petitions against ACTA, right?

EDIT:

And what do you know, companies are taking rights into own hands.
just take a look at this:



source: The Escapist forums

On another sidenote: several downloading sites have been taken offline.
These are: Fileserve, Uploaded, Filepost, Hotfile, 4shared and Mediafire.

And as a bonus, a video from everyone's favorite gamereviewer, Jim Sterling.

<div style='width:650px;font-size: 12px;'><embed src="http://cdn2.themis-media.com/media/global/movies/player/flowplayer.commercial-3.2.7.swf" flashvars="config=http://www.themis-media.com/videos/config/5268-4276bbacef9a67e9fd5fe673f1180276.js&#37;3Fplayer_versi on%3D2.5%26embed%3D1" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" quality="high" bgcolor="#000000" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.adobe.com/go/getflashplayer" width="650" height="391" wmode="opaque"></embed><div><a href='http://www.escapistmagazine.com'>The Escapist</a> : <a href='http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition'>Jimquisition</a> : <a href='/videos/view/jimquisition/5268-Piracy-Episode-One-Copyright'>Piracy Episode One - Copyright</a></div></div>

Wait a sec, Mediafire was taken offline? Doesn't seem like it.

Slurpee
01-23-2012, 04:20 PM
I'm all up for the moon thing at this point.
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/126/314/3cd8a33a.png?1306264975

CypressDahlia
01-24-2012, 01:05 AM
I don't see how that makes EA douchebags. Mass Effect, the title, is a trademark of EA and if someone is using the appeal of the "Mass Effect" franchise to sell products, then it's an issue. If I sold a T-shirt with Mass Effect characters on it, people will most likely buy the shirt because it's automatically associated with EA's product. So essentially I'm riding on the wave of ME's popularity to peddle my own goods, but pocketing the cash. It's like those guys who sell bootlegged team jerseys outside of the superbowl.

Though the "that's what she said" thing is dumb as hell because that existed way before The Office. It's also something that can be used in multiple contexts, even purely expository. So copyrighting something like that shouldn't even be allowed due to vagueness.

Hell_Baron
01-24-2012, 09:56 AM
Got some more vids for you guys. some really interesting shit.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzS5rSvZXe8&feature=youtu.be


http://www.youtube.com/watch?src_vid=-tD1yaE0GfQ&feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_165431&v=Ai2ra0HwSbQ

CypressDahlia
01-24-2012, 11:43 AM
It's fucking stupid that they're enforcing this thing already. They should at least give people some time to clear their name otherwise they could very well be getting sued under a different set of terms than when they uploaded/shared the pirated material initially. That's legally unsound. You can't be guilty for something you weren't aware was illegal, in reference to the UK kid.

GunZet
01-25-2012, 02:00 PM
That is complete, italicized, BS. I don't think a lot of these people that are running the show are gonna listen until something bad happens, and by bad, I mean bad to them. Guess the current public backlash isn't breaking enough skin.

Bacon_Barbarian
01-26-2012, 06:51 PM
That last video about the RIAA? So what. The companies have a right to persecute. And so what if he nominated a lawyer who defended RIAA? The man was not on the RIAAs payroll. He was payed by them, but he wasn't a company employee. If he's competent, and he very well may be, does it matter where comes from? He's not going on the SC or anything, he's Solicitor General.

GunZet
01-26-2012, 07:20 PM
Why does it just seem like SOPA and PIPA were just ploys for ACTA?

Slurpee
01-26-2012, 08:45 PM
I want to die in a hole :l

Hell_Baron
01-27-2012, 04:39 AM
Why does it just seem like SOPA and PIPA were just ploys for ACTA?

They probably were.

Regantor
01-27-2012, 09:39 AM
I'd be ashamed of the UK goverment for being so spineless, but I've come to expect no better. None of this as been reported from any of our own news organisations at all as far as I know.

Brb, being arrested by usa gestapo. :/

Bacon_Barbarian
01-27-2012, 05:20 PM
I'd be very surprised if PIPA and SOPA were ploys. They just brought attention to ACTA, which is exactly what the people trying to pass ACTA along do not want.

Aether
02-02-2012, 10:55 AM
The fact people care more about SOPA and PIPA and ACTA than they did about the NDAA is why America is fucking doomed. This is what we deserve.
Pretty much this.

Hey guys, we're thinking of censoring the internet with SOPA, PIPA and ACTA.

"WTF NO. THE INTERNET IS OUR HOME. STAY AWAY FROM OUR LAST SAFE HAVEN."

Okay, well we're also sanctioning the NDAA and are going to violate many more human rights like detainment without trial if we suspect someone is partaking in terrorist activities. It's not like we'll have any definite proof or anything we just have to think people are terrorists and we'll detain them. Not to mention the plethora of other things we're doing with this.

"FUCK OFF WITH YOUR INTERNET CENSORSHIP. IT'S OUR INTERNET."

Right, so we'll run with NDAA then.

Fenn
02-02-2012, 11:20 AM
Pretty much this.

Hey guys, we're thinking of censoring the internet with SOPA, PIPA and ACTA.

"WTF NO. THE INTERNET IS OUR HOME. STAY AWAY FROM OUR LAST SAFE HAVEN."

Okay, well we're also sanctioning the NDAA and are going to violate many more human rights like detainment without trial if we suspect someone is partaking in terrorist activities. It's not like we'll have any definite proof or anything we just have to think people are terrorists and we'll detain them. Not to mention the plethora of other things we're doing with this.

"FUCK OFF WITH YOUR INTERNET CENSORSHIP. IT'S OUR INTERNET."

Right, so we'll run with NDAA then.

I'm starting to wonder if the Internet was designed as a more efficient way to control and pacify the masses.

[/conspiracytheory]

GunZet
02-02-2012, 12:02 PM
The true internet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_Web

Delphinus
02-02-2012, 03:57 PM
I've been on the darknet yo. :P

CypressDahlia
02-02-2012, 05:57 PM
Most of my every day problems derive from normal people around me anyway. Got no time to worry about WTF the government is doing when I'm at the constant threat of being mugged, murdered, stolen from and slandered by my fellow citizens. We've been so conditioned to blame big government for everything that we forget the person with the highest chance of killing us is the guy sitting beside us on the subway.

Evil_Cake
02-02-2012, 06:05 PM
yeah screw that guy

CypressDahlia
02-02-2012, 06:16 PM
Yeah that guy is a pretty big douchebag.

Kodos
02-02-2012, 06:31 PM
Most of my every day problems derive from normal people around me anyway. Got no time to worry about WTF the government is doing when I'm at the constant threat of being mugged, murdered, stolen from and slandered by my fellow citizens. We've been so conditioned to blame big government for everything that we forget the person with the highest chance of killing us is the guy sitting beside us on the subway.
"Have you seen the price of bread? I don't have time to worry about this herr Hitler or whatever. I've got bigger things. He'll never get in power, anyway, so who cares?"

CypressDahlia
02-02-2012, 06:39 PM
Totally fair comparison.

GunZet
02-02-2012, 06:45 PM
Let's not have this escalate to anything else, alright. Do what I do and bounce it to the CB, like a pro.

CypressDahlia
02-02-2012, 06:55 PM
It's just kind of silly that we're so scared of NDAA yet fail to acknowledge that our very own citizens murder 17,000 people yearly. Yes the government detaining us under highly circumstantial conditions is so scary yet there are no threads pointing out how ridiculous our murder rates are. The chances of a person killing you randomly on the street are higher than the chances of the government killing you even if you've been tried and convicted for a high felony. 13,000 people have been executed by the government since colonization. 17,000 people are killed by our average citizens every--single--year. Who should we be more concerned about?

Our focus should be more on //community//, bringing our fellow citizens out of the trends of murder, drug addiction and gang violence, not government fear-mongering. Join an urban youth club or something.

Kodos
02-02-2012, 06:55 PM
Totally fair comparison.
Apathy in the face of gross injustice is apathy in the face of gross injustice. It is entirely a fair comparison. You are saying that you do not worry about the government and the fate of the world because you have more immediate and personal concerns. A person living in Germany during the time of Hitler's rise to power faced greater daily struggles than you face now. The only way my comparison possibly fails is in the fact that it is perhaps much easier to be sympathetic to the hypothetical German, because their struggles were - as noted - much greater, and unlike people today they did not have the historical basis to know that it is frighteningly easy and probable for a highly dangerous lunatic to come to power in a first world nation.

EDIT: The triumph of evil owes more to apathy and inaction by the good then to the ambition and drive of the evil.

CypressDahlia
02-02-2012, 07:04 PM
I think we must have posted a few seconds apart or something.

It's not that I don't care because the government doesn't affect me, it's that prioritizing what the government "might" do over proactively fighting what our average citizens are known to do is silly. We should be mad at the government for possibly detaining us, yet most of us couldn't care less about the atrocities committed by our fellow citizens. Where is the sense in that? Fighting big government just because it's big government is pointless. When you consider the scale of atrocities committed by common people versus that of the government, the government is a rank two concern.

Kodos
02-02-2012, 07:10 PM
Outside of the drug cartels of Central America and South America I am unaware of any private citizens or organizations of private citizens which cause human suffering on as large or as wide a scale as the government and armed forces of the United States of America. I am further unaware of any private citizen or citizens who have access to nuclear weapons, or who have access to the ability to restrict the flow of free information and send people who try to circumvent this restriction to rape dungeons.

Crime is a concern. You'd have to be a moron to think otherwise. But first and foremost, there is not an economy of giving a fuck. People can, and should, care about the actions of dangerous citizens, and the actions of monstrously corrupt and evil organizations like the USA. Second, the government and those working for it are far more likely to harm people than private citizens. As an American citizen living in America, yes, the odds are greater of you being killed or grievously harmed by another citizen then by the government, but at the rate things are going, I highly doubt that will continue to be true. Further, American citizens are not the only people who's wellbeing matters, or ought be considered.

And rereading your post: "When you consider the scale of atrocities committed by common people versus that of the government, the government is a rank two concern. "

Tell me when common people dropped atomic weapons on two cities. I missed that incident.

And to be on topic: I do not believe ACTA will pass. I think it's important we fight it proactively, just in case, but I highly doubt it will pass. Same for SOPA and PIPA and their successors. It's like Brave New World - the governments want to keep up preoccupied and docile with mindless media, so that we continue to fail to notice or care about the massive red white and blue dick being shoved up our asses.

CypressDahlia
02-02-2012, 07:32 PM
I'm personally more concerned about who's being killed now than who might or might not be jailed in some undisclosed time in the future, under very specific circumstances that might or might not exist.

The atom bombs killed, at most, an estimated 240,000 people. In a period of 6 years (1960-'66), US citizens managed to kill over 600,000 people. It's been 66 years since the atom bomb. You do the math. Also, since 1973, our citizens have been equally responsible for any and all war efforts of the US. That's when the draft ended. All of our servicemen, since then, have been volunteers ie. willing to kill in the name of the United States. And we all know how much of an atrocity the War on Terror was.

That's not to say the atom bombs weren't a tragedy. They were, a huge one. But nothing except the Holocaust is more tragic than our domestic murder rates.

Not to mention Bush's approval ratings skyrocketed to 78&#37; (from 50%) once he declared war on Iraq. US citizens wanted that war, US citizens willfully fought that war and over 600,000 //civilian// Iraqis, not soldiers, not agents of the opposing army, but civilians were killed by US citizens.

Delphinus
02-03-2012, 02:14 PM
Our focus should be more on //community//, bringing our fellow citizens out of the trends of murder, drug addiction and gang violence, not government fear-mongering. Join an urban youth club or something.

Yippee skippee fucking doo-da, let's create a utopia of community and mutual love and peace. Individualism is the greatest evil; provided people have COMMUNITY and FRIENDSHIP they'll be happy. Oh and there's a couple of examples of this already. Praise be!

Btw here are two totally unrelated videos about COMMUNITY and HAPPINESS. They don't describe the same event or anything


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8afojtw4UE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGJoaHr2QdM

Serious edit: The sort of community programs you're talking about are a facile sham designed to promote what I can only describe as tediously middle-class values of love, mutual respect, etc. They don't promote self-respect, just respect for one's neighbours. A real sense of community comes from having something in common with others, and being able to talk to others in a civilised manner, not from working together to repaint the fucking school. People can and ought to be rude to and angry at one another sometimes. It helps vent frustrations. The problems with gangs and drugs are due to people relying on external factors for their happiness, rather than focusing on their individuation, and traditional community programs promote this and just channel people's external needs into other groups. Alcoholics Anonymous gets people addicted to God, for example.

CypressDahlia
02-03-2012, 03:11 PM
...what?

I'm not sure where you're going with this at all. I mentioned nothing about creating a utopia, I simply stated that making a community effort to stop Americans from slaughtering each other is a lot more beneficial than promoting paranoia over what the government might could possibly do in the near future. We're in an uproar because the government might could possibly detain some of us but the truth is that the government is, in terms of being a direct threat to our people, nothing compared to the people themselves. We just have this strange "us" versus "them" mentality which is undoubtedly rooted in some form of classism that makes us assume all non-corporate, sub-gentry Americans actually care about what's best for this country and its people. The government is often stupid. The last two administrations have a track record of making poor decisions. But to say that they are the greater evil is nothing less than deceptive. The biggest problems society faces: murder, theft, rape, drug trafficking, gangbanging are mostly the doings of the citizens, not the governing body. These problems spawn on the community level and it's going to take a strong community commitment to fix them.

Point being: 4.5 million people signed a petition to fight SOPA. When's the last time even a million people signed a petition to increase funding for education in urban areas? We turn our backs on our community and watch the world go to shit and then act like the "big bad government" is the largest threat to our humanity? It's laughable.


EDIT: Speak for yourself, Delphinus. You're just being an armchair cynic. I'm part of two urban youth clubs and the DC Dance Collective. Many of our young members testify that their involvement with us has given them a better outlook on life, improved the quality of their relationships, given them friends, important experiences, kept them out of gangs and, in some cases, prevented potential suicides. So yeah, dude, it's not all smoke and mirrors.

Delphinus
02-03-2012, 04:30 PM
Surely you recognise that the government and other large organisations (particularly media companies, particularly the 'big five') have a role in controlling social behaviour? If so, then the government is an enormous threat to our humanity. Not that I believe people are mere pawns to socialisation (I know from myself and others that socialising is a sliding scale), but practically everything we do is a result of our environment and how it affects us. The government determines the most basic facts about the way we socialise with other people and how we interact; taking a wholly interactionist perspective on such a complex issue seems just as foolish as taking a constructivist one.

As for being an armchair cynic: making people happier doesn't make them better. An unhappy person who thinks critically is better than a happy little drone.

EDIT: For god's sake a gang member who's doing it for a reason other than 'makes me feel part of something' is better than a happy little drone.

CypressDahlia
02-03-2012, 06:22 PM
I don't deny that the government has bearing over how we do things. I wouldn't say the media is the biggest perpetrator, though. The media is fed by the things we, as people want to see. It's not like the media simply generates influence; the influence derives from exploiting our flawed value system. In short, the media is simply an opportunistic entity, the problem lies in our core values. I'd say the biggest influence the gov. has over our daily lives is through bureaucracy, but that's stuff that was said in the Free Will thread.

As for "happy little drones", you do realize that many youth programs train their recruits in areas of business expertise and leadership, offer tutoring for all academic subjects on top of community projects, right? Even then, there's something to be learned from "fucking painting a school". Like the value of cooperation and the understanding that a better environment doesn't just materialize, it takes the effort of the community as a whole. But even among the kids that I've solely taught dancing to, I have never seen more genuine fulfillment than when they master something or learn something new. If you said that to their faces, they would probably give you a very earnest middle finger.

And no, buddy, there is no "good" kind of gang member. I can't believe you would even say that.

Delphinus
02-03-2012, 07:10 PM
I don't deny that the government has bearing over how we do things. I wouldn't say the media is the biggest perpetrator, though. The media is fed by the things we, as people want to see. It's not like the media simply generates influence; the influence derives from exploiting our flawed value system. In short, the media is simply an opportunistic entity, the problem lies in our core values. I'd say the biggest influence the gov. has over our daily lives is through bureaucracy, but that's stuff that was said in the Free Will thread.
The media both reflects and forms our culture; the extent to which it does one or the other is a matter for consideration and academic research. Either way I don't see how this debate is going to go further or be productive in this thread.


As for "happy little drones", you do realize that many youth programs train their recruits in areas of business expertise and leadership, offer tutoring for all academic subjects on top of community projects, right?
Business expertise and academic subjects are not the same as learning to think. Well, not the same as learning to think about important things as opposed to areas that are interesting but not pivotal. You can run the most successful business in the world and be a brilliant professor and still be a racist, misogynistic pedophile. Without wanting to sound like I'm some sort of philosophy snob, I think more time needs to be dedicated to philosophy and ethics, in particular how it relates to society.


Even then, there's something to be learned from "fucking painting a school". Like the value of cooperation and the understanding that a better environment doesn't just materialize, it takes the effort of the community as a whole. But even among the kids that I've solely taught dancing to, I have never seen more genuine fulfillment than when they master something or learn something new. If you said that to their faces, they would probably give you a very earnest middle finger.
Skills are nice. Learning that big projects require lots of people to make them work is nice. But that's all they are: nice. Like I implied above, you can be a 'team player' or a fantastic artist or whatever, but it's all worthless if you're still ultimately attached to your community more than yourself. Gang members are attached to a community; it's a criminal one, but it fills the same damn role in their lives as a more broadly-accepted one does. Maybe I'm just anti-social, but I've always seen dependence on a community rather than on one's own impetus to be a form of weakness and dependence. To quote Ferris Bueller (that great philosopher ;)): "-Ism's in my opinion are not good. A person should not believe in an -ism, he should believe in himself."


And no, buddy, there is no "good" kind of gang member. I can't believe you would even say that.
Well, is it better to do what you feel compelled to do even if it involves hurting and killing other people, or to sacrifice your own happiness to maintain a moral standard? That's the debate that's dominated the modern era, in one form or another. Individualism or collectivism?

Psy
02-03-2012, 07:16 PM
Keep it closer to the topic. I can see from the posts how everything posted is some what relevant to the topic but it's starting to skew way off track.

Delphinus
02-03-2012, 07:36 PM
Can you split the thread or something, Psy? There's an interesting conversation here, but you're right: it's not really related to ACTA.

Psy
02-04-2012, 12:09 AM
It is only possible for me to move your posts to another thread. I would need the thread to be started first and I would want everyone who wants their post moved to say so in that thread. It won't be for a while tho because I'm at work so like another two hours plus how ever long who ever it takes you cypress and possibly kids to say they want their posts moved.

Unless you'd rather just quote everything to save time.

CypressDahlia
02-04-2012, 12:30 AM
Naw I think Delphinus and I already know where this conversation is inevitably headed. We're good for now, IMO.

T1B3R1U5
02-10-2012, 03:32 PM
Like create a "Conversations of ACTA" thread? That would be nice, actually. Since people can post the main stuffs here and then go over to the other thread to have heated discussions over most of the stuff here. I'm just making a suggestion, and not trying to rally for it to happen. So the idea is out there....

Psy
02-10-2012, 03:45 PM
No the point of this thread is to discuss ACTA and I will understand and let slide slipping SOPA and PIPA in there. The main things talked about in discussion threads is the main topic itself as in what it is but allso the causes and effects of the topic and maybe the solutions pros cons and opinions of the decided topic. What was going on in the last few posts was more of an "your real enemy is your neighbor/overlord government?" kind of discussion (no offense is intended by that statement) and is somewhat related to the topic of ACTA but not close enough that it should have continued in this thread.

So it's best to keep this thread as the one and only ACTA discussion thread for posting news on it or stating your opinions on the matter in a civil way.

T1B3R1U5
02-13-2012, 03:34 PM
Okay, thats all settled then. Anyways, did any of you know that GoDaddy.com supports SOPA? OR was I the only one out of the loop on that?

GunZet
02-13-2012, 03:45 PM
They did support SOPA, but when a lot of people started canceling their services with them, they released this statement. (http://www.godaddy.com/newscenter/release-view.aspx?news_item_id=378)

ClockHand
02-13-2012, 03:48 PM
The same happened with IGN and other sites. They all supported SOPA, but after people start ranting about it, they change their support. Obviously they still support the idea in SOPA, but they are going to be more cautious in their statements.

Hell_Baron
03-01-2012, 01:03 PM
sup' folks, i'm pretty sure some of you may have heard of "Black March".
if not allow me to educate you:

"With the continuing campaigns for Internet-censoring litigation such as SOPA and PIPA, and the closure of sites such as Megaupload under allegations of 'piracy' and 'conspiracy', the time has come to take a stand against music, film and media companies' lobbyists.

The only way to hit them where it truly hurts... Their profit margins.

Do not buy a single record. Do not download a single song, legally or illegally. Do not go to see a single film in cinemas, or download a copy. Do not buy a DVD in the stores. Do not buy a videogame. Do not buy a single book or magazine.

Wait the 4 weeks to buy them in April, see the film later, etc. Holding out for just 4 weeks will lave a gaping hole in the media and entertainment companies' profits for the 1st quarter. An economic hit which will in turn be observed by governments worldwide as stocks and shares will blip from a large enough loss of incomes."

However, while this is a good start it won't be enough to actually deliver the message.
Remember the british college student that is going to be extradited for linking to websites with copyrighted content?
well, turns out the MPAA is behind that.
and guess who it's a members are?

Walt-Disney, Sony Pictures, Paramount, 20th Century Fox, Universal and Warner Bros.

Now i bet you're asking:"what does this have to do with the college student and copyright?"
Well, allow me to explain. a lot of consumers first check reviews of certain products on sites like Amazon and Rotten Tomatoes.
If a product has a low score, people will less likely to purchase it. now here's the plan: we go to these sites and give them low review scores. Not only will this be effective, it's also completely legal. however there is a slight snag in this: i'm pretty sure a couple of hundred of people won't be enough, so be sure to spread this; be it 9gag, memebase, funnyjunk or 4chan.
if this actually works, it could cost the entertainment industry a few million dollars.

toast
03-06-2012, 09:58 PM
Just so you guys know, Ireland's sopa was passed thanks to mr. completely-oblivious-to-whats-going-on-in-the-world

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lya9lf2fLA1qzigy0o1_500.jpg

Hell_Baron
03-07-2012, 01:36 PM
what an asshat!

CypressDahlia
03-08-2012, 08:49 AM
I hope you don't go through with the low score thing because the only reason many major corporations haven't gone on a piracy crusade is because they still manage to stay afloat/make profit off of what they do manage to sell. Lowering their sales is basically encouraging them to go to a piracy crusade.

Hell_Baron
03-12-2012, 06:13 PM
Cype if there's one thing i've learned it's that you can't stop piracy.
pirates will just move somewhere else and carry on with their business.

GunZet
03-12-2012, 06:44 PM
You can't stop piracy, but you can make it so it happens less often. Unfortunately that requires making more jobs so that people actually have money (even though some are just outright lazy asses), and release more trials/demos of stuff like software, demos, etc. And well, the other way would be to lower the costs of some things (Pixologic, I'm looking at you), and make stuff more available through special offers (thank you, Autodesk, +1 to you guys.)

CypressDahlia
03-12-2012, 07:07 PM
oh no, you can stop piracy. But I just doubt the government is willing to go that far.

Hell_Baron
03-12-2012, 07:26 PM
oh no, you can stop piracy. But I just doubt the government is willing to go that far.

you don't know that.
remember when people said pizza wasn't a vegetable?
and look what happened. the thing is, as long as you give lots of money to the right people, you can basicly make anything happen.
the only way to "stop" piracy is by offering a better service than any pirate can give, like free downloadable content or using a freemium product.

CypressDahlia
03-12-2012, 07:35 PM
So the only way to stop piracy is to give people things for free...

Does that sound a little self-entitled?

And TBH would you really call piracy a 'service'? Theft is no a service. Companies are not obligated to compete with or facilitate theft. Why? Because theft is technically not supposed to exist.

Sylux
03-12-2012, 09:00 PM
Ugggh again with the piracy crap man

CypressDahlia
03-12-2012, 09:07 PM
Isn't that what this thread is about?

Hell_Baron
03-13-2012, 04:08 AM
So the only way to stop piracy is to give people things for free...

Does that sound a little self-entitled?

And TBH would you really call piracy a 'service'? Theft is no a service. Companies are not obligated to compete with or facilitate theft. Why? Because theft is technically not supposed to exist.

Yes and no. Freemium is basicly making a game free to play and allowing the player to choose wheter the want to pay for certain content, something like what TF2 has going on. sure it might not stop piracy, but that product will become less likely to be pirated. now i'm not saying every company should use this method of disribution, but it's a interesting concept nonetheless.

And yes, technically piracy is not a service, but hear me out on this one.
you know how most games these days have DRM? well, supposedly this is meant to reduce piracy but fails miserably at it (well except for steam, maybe) take the Ubisoft DRM fiasco for example, when they announced they where going to switch servers and that this wouldn't affect gamers, the exact opposite happened. the result? dozens of games where basicly unplayable because the DRM software required a constant connection with that server, to wich it for some reason could not connect to. THAT is bad service. so a lot gamers naturaly wanted to be able to play the games they bought with their hard-earned money, so some of them resulted to piracy. why? because pirated versions of those games do not have drm in them that requires a constant internet connection with a server, and even if you lose your internet connection you can keep playing. that is better service than the shitty DRM Ubisoft offered.

What you have to do is offer the people something that piracy doesn't. like selling products with free extra content for a short period of time, put products on sale for a limited period of time, or in the case of The Humble Indy Bundle; let the customer decide the amount of money they're willing to pay. besides that it's perfectly legal.

CypressDahlia
03-13-2012, 04:21 AM
I get what you're saying, but I think you're missing the point. A company doesn't need to compete with piracy because piracy is not supposed to happen. You're basically saying that companies need to compromise with people who are threatening to steal their products if they don't get a good deal. That's totally backwards. If a guy asked for my wallet, am I supposed to offer him something more valuable so he won't steal it? No, because he's not supposed to be trying to mug me in the first place. Don't get me wrong, I'm a pirate, too, but let's not try to rationalize it. It makes us look like entitled babies.

GunZet
03-13-2012, 05:14 AM
If people want something bad enough, they'll just take it. Same rule for just about eternity now, internet just makes it easier for the common person.

estunc
03-15-2012, 02:29 AM
It is quite disappointing that some people seated in power have this brewing behind the citizens' knowledge and they even had PIPA and SOPA going to mask what they are employing right about the same time.

I think the thing that we should put as a must are people who are pro internet rather than those who would try to bring it down or worse, want to take control of it.