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Peteman
10-19-2011, 06:49 PM
So Hello everyone I'm Peteman and I'm new. I hope to well ...get some art critiqued and in return, though I don't think I'm much of a judge I will try help others in return. I've been 'doodling' for some years now, though this would be short boughts of inspired drawing followed by not much for long periods of time. I on one to use this to get regular drawing done, mayby once a week (though real life may get in the way) so that I may work up to being confident/fast enough to do a regular webcomic series on one of the many story ideas that have been swimming around in my head for a very long time.

Also even though this is a 'manga' forum I admit my style isn't exactly manga style as I've found that this, for me, limits how I draw my characters. They are still manga-ish though.

So this first one is the first time I've done extensive digital colouring, mostly done via tutorials and a little eperimentation. I've done single areas of one colour before but nothing quiet like this.


http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh196/Peteman22/WendyThatcher.jpg

Firstly is it normal that doing the whole process of digitaly 'inking' it and colour with many mutliple layers took freakin' ages? Alternatively any tips on speading the process up?

Secondly, this may be due to having a very cheap, non-pressure sensitive and small tablet, but even though she looks alright zoomed out; if you zoomed in you'd see the lines are horribly wobbly from trying to draw over my sketch lines with the table pen. Again as I don't have much experiance in this, is this normal? Any tips for improving that?

Plus critique/tips on how I can improve on the drawing in general would be nice. :)

Thanks

Peteman


P.S I've just read the posting rules again, sorry about the 'general' topic thread, I'd change it if I could.

GunZet
10-19-2011, 08:12 PM
I got class for a good 4 hours, but I'll get back to your thread afterwards and leave a nice sized crit. :cat_whirly:

Ok, and so I'm back as promised.


The hair:
Starting from the top to the bottom.
The hair looks nice, although the shading you added makes it look unnatural, even for anime styled hair. It looks as though someone crinkled it up and it stuck that way.
I'd suggest using smooth shading, or more strands of hair, also try to keep the lines less wobbly.
The black lines are ok, but not fo the way the hair is drawn. It seems to overpower the light shading, and when that happens it's almost as though whatever volume her hair is supposed to have, doesn't exist. You see th outline predominantly, and the shading to show the hair shape basically becomes invisible.
SO either remove the black lines, lower the opacity on em to blend in more, blend them in, or use more black lines in the hair itself.
One last thing with the hair, it seems to be floating on her hair, as if it's a wig. Take a look at some refs and you'll see what I mean. The hairline is way too far back, and not really present.

The face:
Th face is looking good, I don't see much wrong with it. BUT- and I know a lot of people make this mistake no matte what your skill level. She has no eyebrows, lol.
Besides that, the eyes look cool, but I'd take the overall design into consideration, the heavy black around the eyes really draws your attention to them, but it's almost overpowering.
The nose looks fine, if not a bit scrunched and out of place with the center of the eyes. Try moving the nose around.
The lips look good from here, I can't say much about em because the pic is so small, but I think it needs a biiiiit more work with the shape and shading.
Not much I can say on the neck, it seems to be able to support her head, that's all th matters.
Speaking of her head, I just now noticed that her head is realllly big, and I bet that's because you took the normal approach to face drawing, and used a circle and went from there. Try to shape the face more into an oval rather than a circle.

The body:
I don't draw many women, if not ever...because I suck at em. But I couldn't help but notice she has no sign of breasts. I know not all women have noticable boobs like everyone thinks they should, but I have a feeling some cleavage would add to this character's attitude.
Other than that, due to the clothing masking most of her anatomy, I can't say much. But it is very blocky, and needs to be shaped a bit more...references once again.
The skirt looks cool, I dig plaid.

The lower body:
Her legs throw her stature off pretty good. Either it's the clothes, or the legs, one of the two.
Basically she seems as though she'd be pretty tall, but her legs are saying 'nono.'
I'd look up some leg anatomy references, and practice that in this case. Because her lower legs are longer than her thighs. Lengthen the thighs, and shorten the lower leg area.

The pose:
It's not very dynamic, it's not very stiff either. It's just awkward actually. The perspective on her legs throws it off, as it seems her feet are lying in two different planes. That sort of 3/4 look can be tough, so just keep practicing. It's not bad, just needs a bit of work.

The coloring:
I like the color choice, nice and simple. But for the sake of how light her hair is, I'd darken the suit a bit, so it compliments it.

The breakdown:
Not bad at all, but there is a lot of room for improvement, so hopefully I helped you out a bit lol.
Basically what it all comes down to is practicing anatomy and proportions more, lines and line weight, and perspective. There are some good tutorials here on MT, I'd suggest checking some out.

The shit:
Also doing stuff completely digital isn't bad at all, it's the way things are going now lol. Especially with the entertainment industry.
And I know you're having technical difficulties wih you tablet, but trust me, it's better than drawing with a mouse for 5 years.

Good luck!:cat_thumbsup:

Maxx_Wellington
10-20-2011, 01:52 AM
So far, without reading the other post, let me say that this is a pretty awesome picture. However there are a few things to consider:
The bangs have way too much details, remember the KISS method... KEEP IT SIMPLE SILLY (don't want to be to insulting)
Let the outline of the ponytail speak for the hair, don't overkill it.
Eyebrows... nuf said
I think it's her eyes that are cockeyed... no pun intended. That's making her face look like she is having a stroke...
The tie is too tight... it looks stiff like it's tight arround her neck, loosen it up by relaxing the knot.
I have a feeling that the arms are just slightly too short
Skirt is too high.. should finish at the bottom button of her coat
num chucks are uneaven but that's ok, however you have lighting issues. Check the lighting situation on all the gold and you will find two seperate sources,, the bottom one not corrisponding to any other.
Legging has sideways lighting, skirt should have it too
shoes... well they look like an afterthought. keep it simple and don't gradient it at such an opaque ammount. clean up yourlines.


That's all I see. sorry if I was wrong

SuperKasey
10-20-2011, 03:23 AM
Looks pretty good. I've always liked high school girl brawler type characters.

Clothing: There are some pretty unnatural folds in her shirt especially near the bottom and her skirt just looks flat. That could have something to do with the pleats but I think it's most likely from the lack of visible shading.

Nanchaku: I know this is me being nit-picky, but that weapon design wouldn't have the range of motion or flexibility needed to fully swing it around with just one chain link. It would snag and catch and lock up and it just wouldn't be a good day for anybody. Most nanchaku are actually connected to the chain with a sort of pivot or regular old rope to prevent this. Food for thought.

Tablet: Boooo tablet issues. Honestly this could be anything from outdated drivers to a quality issue to your settings to which program you're using. I find that certain programs are less forgiving of wobble than others. One trick is to use faster strokes when inking. It's old fashioned and kind of brute but it works for me. Basically the speed reduces the wobble xD Or you could always go look around in some tech forums.

Peteman
10-20-2011, 05:30 PM
Thanks guys, Gunzet particularly. That was very detailed.

Some little things though. Firstly that's not a nun-chuck, it's a flail. Not a ball on chain one, but a one based of the wheat thresh farming tool from which the weapon originated. It is a similar weapon but generally held with two hands on the long end, instead of swung around with one hand.

The hair was a big experiment which didn't seem to work very well. I was trying out a tutorial on digitaly colouring hair but it wasn't going well so I so well so I tried something else instead. Doesn't seem to have been a big success. I'll try something else next time.

Her boobs or lack thereof. I did use a referance and because she's wearing a tweed school blazer which is really thick and does as you've said cover most of the anatomy. You really can't see much of a real sixteen year old's breasts underneath a school blazer. Though I reckon I should have put some more in the way of shading underneath the small part that you can see to give them more definition.

Most other things I agree with. :)

Can anyone point me in the direction of a good shading tutorial, not the process, but lots of example of how light falls on different items/people from different directions? As I had a good tutorial for the face I tried to do a similar process for the rest of her body but how it fell was basicly guess work.

Thanks

Peteman

Peteman
11-02-2011, 06:34 PM
Firstly I apologize that this is not a proper picture for critisising, I want to get the whole process right. I also apologize for for the appalling scan quality.
Okay after many failed attempts at a more dynamic pose. I've settled for this one. But I'm worried about the position of the head/neck/ shoulders and how it should look. Or any tips on the pose in general before I get started on drawing propper?

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh196/Peteman22/img008.jpg

Thanks

Pete

Hamachi
11-02-2011, 07:36 PM
Mm. I'd suggest to avoid making all the limbs stuck straight out (guy's left leg, his right arm) because it's rare to have very straight things show up at an exact moment like that. I notice you're using quite a few 90-degree angles in the drawing. Be careful because most artists suffer from "straightening things out" a bit too much, so try introducing a few more acute or obtuse angles where they might look nice, and especially at angles where they break away from the margins of your paper.

You need to foreshorten your guy a bit better. If you look at the way his spine is drawn right now it makes an L-shape. This means it's absolutely straight and his head and upper torso's suddenly wrenched downwards towards his stomach, which doesn't read well.

What I guess I'm trying to say is that, in this stage you shouldn't be worrying too much about the parts in your character as to what they're doing. Try to practice capturing the action in a few fluid strokes, sort of like how you've demonstrated with the floor his right hand is on. The style you used with those freehanded strokes shows promise.

Also note that there's no need to squeeze the mass so much where the joints are. Don't worry if it looks fat or a bit off, because that sort of thing is fixed later on.

Finally, the best way to put this in practice is to observe from life. Carry a sketchbook. Draw your friends or some random people. They won't care if you suck. Just do it.

SuperKasey
11-02-2011, 07:48 PM
Hama pretty much nailed it, but if it's okay with you I'm going to supply a red-line and a ref picture as soon as I get home from work @.@ Remember the human body isn't a jointed doll that you just pose. It has weight and movement and above all it FLOWS.

EDIT: As promised here's the redline, but I couldn't get my brother to take those ref pics with me >:C All I was going to point out with them though is that angling your head like that is uncomfortable and you can just as easily look at your feet by subtly tilting your head.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i163/KTDS/redline.jpg

All I did was fix the proportions a little, balance out his center of gravity and fix a few hyper extended joints.

Peteman
11-03-2011, 01:50 PM
Wow thanks guys thats amazing. I'll keep working on it. I've allways secretly wanted to red line my work for me (don't ask me why.)

SuperKasey what exactly do you mean by hyper extended joints? What have I done that makes them so?

Maxx_Wellington
11-03-2011, 02:48 PM
Peteman, take a look at Parkour, jumping fences are part of that physical art. Although SK`s redline is awesome, I still think that the body shouldn`t be so horisontal. The human body would need wickedly strong legs to actually go that high, so implus of her corrections, I would tilt the feet end down.

Also, you took the origional drawing down, so I forgot... what was the guy looking at?

Peteman
11-03-2011, 03:21 PM
Which original drawing? I've taken nothing down.

He's supposed to be in the the motion of jumping over a wall and kicking somebody at the same time. This is partly why I drew the upper leg so strait. He would be looking at where his foot connects with the person's body.

Maxx_Wellington
11-03-2011, 03:48 PM
ah I see. I thought remembering seeing a similar pic... anyways, if he is kicking someone, then there are two ways of drawing it.

If the person getting kicked is falling the same way as the character is jumping, then the foot be extended, the second foot would be bent, like you drew it.

IF the person getting kicked is falling away from the character, as if had being steped on by the character, then the foot would be flat.

The whole stance would also depend on where he is kicking the person, and how tall the person is.

Try sketching a quick sketch of the guy getting kicked to help.

Peteman
11-20-2011, 05:24 PM
I havent posted here for a while, thats not good.

At Hamachi's suggestion here's some posing practice work, done very quickly and sketchy, based off pictures I found typing 'Parkour' into google. I hope they are an improvement.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh196/Peteman22/Motion1.jpg

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh196/Peteman22/Motion2.jpg

Then for the fun of it I did some of the same poses with chibis.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh196/Peteman22/Motion3chibi.jpg

All comments welcome.

Pete

Maxx_Wellington
11-21-2011, 12:47 PM
you have improved a great deal Peteman. Your anatomy and body mass movement has come a great deal. The only thing I see wrong here (as this is supposed to be a critique place) is that your fully drawn chibi's elevated arm has a slightly disconnected arm, in my opinion. Simply put, his torso's edge and the bottom of the arm don't line up, so it looks a little out of place. But it's an easy fix. just curve the torso's line from about half ways to the point at the bottom of the arm. Also his feet are both pointing towards the fourth wall (ie-the screen or the side with a lack of a wall if he was standing on a stage) wich is slightly unatural as his body and face are pointing to about my left shoulder. So his right foot (the one to our left) should also be pointing more that way. This occurs as humans tend to swagger their feet for ballence. (or at least that's my understanding of it)

Another deffinition of a term I used is:
Body mass movement: A human body moves like a balloon filled with water rather than air. If the balloon is filled with air, the air particles, being weightless, don't alternate the balloons mass, however, as the mass of water is signifintly heavier than air, will streatch the balloon with a combination of gravitational pull and centripital force. The differance is that with the human body, we subcontiously choose where our stronger body mass is placed. While jumping, we can stick a landing or fail depending on if we put the weight in our feet or our head. We can also gain momentum this way. Centripetal force is used in jumping in a circle, over a wall or any motion that requires a spin as they require piviting on an axis.

Earlier I stepped over the line saying that "SuperKasey's redline is too horisontal". What I ment to say, is that in order for a human to jump a wall, as I often do, the mass of the body must not rely on the arm, as it needs to spin but also must have a greater weight in the hips or the feet in order to whip the body to the other side. This theory can be proven by looking at David and Goliath's fight, and David's style of slingshot. the momentum was created not by how strong the arm was, holding the whip, but by the fact that the arm was creating momentum for the mass, which would be the rock in this situation.

I believe that your current drawing of a guy jumping a wall, as well as the rest, is abiding well with this rule of physics.

I look forward to seeing your completed drawings and appoligise if this critique was incoherant or too long winded.

Peteman
01-21-2012, 08:04 AM
It's been a while...I should draw more often...

In any case I am the happy owner of a new 'Bamboo Create' and 'Manga Studio Debut' from christmas and I've only just had time to try them out. They are both awsome! The results are for you to crit. He's been drawn off one of the guys from above and for the first time I was able to do the full 'drawing' process on the computer, instead of drawing him on paper, scanning it and meticulously drawing over all the lines on photoshop.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh196/Peteman22/leapercoloured.jpg

Erm the reason he has a moon head is because I found it impossible to draw a normal face at such an extreme angle, similarly with the hands...I hate drawing hands, swords where easier.

Known issues: the bottom foot looks like it's at an extremely odd angle, but if you flip the picture upside down it doesn't look so bad...:cat_whirly:

So C&C please! Thankyou.

Cloudy
01-22-2012, 08:11 AM
Hey Peteman you should put your name in the title of this thread as per the rules :)

thanks

Peteman
01-23-2012, 04:09 PM
Request complied with.:cat_thumbsup:

Here's the same picture but with a strange background and shading.

Crits would be most appreciated. :)

Thank you.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh196/Peteman22/leapershaded-1.jpg

Slurpee
01-23-2012, 04:21 PM
Psychidelic background O__o

GunZet
01-23-2012, 05:18 PM
I think you should work a bit more on -focus-. I like the background, but it really does seem a bit too attention grabbing with this piece. The character sort of starts to blend into the background, I'd say because of a lack of contrast/darker colors on one or the other. Maybe you could darken the guy, or lighten/darken the background.
I do like the perspective though, looks like he's falling into a freaky, LSD induced, vortex.