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Delphinus
10-19-2011, 06:43 PM
So yeah. People's appearances can be pretty annoying, or stupid, or obviously conformist. Let's bitch about people's appearances. Scratch that, let's bitch about people in general.

Look at this fucking hipster
http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l34zh0UsiU1qzzhzdo1_500.jpg

Also, people who dress to get fucked, male or female, deserve to be shot. Have fun attracting other drunken assholes and living out your hedonistic/nihilistic consumerist fantasy existence until you have kids and become ultra-conservative.

Also, the majority of middle-class people deserve to be shot. Tedious and dull; most working class people earn their money the hard way and have stories to tell, and it's possible for me to have a meaningful conversation with most upper-class people. Hur hur Becky slept with Brad hur hur who fucking cares.

I'll quit before I start sounding like Maddox.

GunZet
10-19-2011, 06:51 PM
I fail to see why the appearance of other people seems to bother you on such a deep personal level. Also I hate people who walk around in shorts, but have em sagging so low they might as well be pants. Lol.

ClockHand
10-19-2011, 06:54 PM
I hate people with the pants down, showing their underwear. What the fuck is that? did they got some butt sex or something?

Also, this:
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/6975/pokemon1ua7.jpg

Sylux
10-19-2011, 06:56 PM
Why are you so full of brash generalizing attacks. I'm middle class but I have some great Dungeons and Dragons stories to tell. I live a consumerist fantasy and I'm already fairly conservative, but will never marry and have children. Given, I don't buy the things I consume, edible and non. If you're going to try to make a humorous post you have to ham it up and soak it and keep it down to Mars, not dry and Earthly like the Arizona desert. Look what I'm trying to say here is it's pointless to spend your time watching anything other than infomercials on cable

http://www.thisishowyoudoit.com/howtoimages/scene-girl-1.jpg

Delphinus
10-19-2011, 07:09 PM
Middle class and not an academic = lame.

EDIT: Okay I'm generalising but I'm a very angry little man

EDIT 2: Actually humans just suck

EDIT 3: So according to some people at my college saying that a lack of morals makes people more likely to rise to a position of power is unrealistically cynical.

I think they'd find it was realistic if they actually knew anything about the topic instead of believing everything is nice. Sociology class as well; I am disappoint.

EDIT 4: So the cynical asshole thread is a better name for this.

Sylux
10-19-2011, 07:15 PM
Well I am an academic so I guess my feelings are less hurt now

http://cdn.buzznet.com/media-cdn/jj1/headlines/2007/11/josh-hartnett-hipster.jpg

Also what's up with kids these days and not dressing for a high-end work environment :\

Eedot: I'm done with morals until I find a practical reason to study them again. As a writer I have a p good sense methinks of character morals and how you can use protagonists to shape or find common ground between antiheroes' morals to/between the protagonists' and other 'good-guys'

Bacon_Barbarian
10-19-2011, 07:26 PM
People still dress nice? In school? What.

I'm like the only person in my school to ever wear a button-down shirt who isn't a teacher. It's fucking depressing.

Sylux
10-19-2011, 07:57 PM
Yeah I pretty much wear nice sweaters or good button-down shirts and slacks and dress shoes every day except Friday. Friday is a sweater and jeans.

Delphinus
10-19-2011, 07:57 PM
101 Wear Polos Everyday

101 Be A Douchebag Everyday

Also slacks? Christ jeans and shirts aren't illegal.

Psy
10-19-2011, 07:59 PM
Sylux I can tell you three things about that girl right now
1) she has a soft palm (meaning she will believe just about anything you say especially if you say it with confidence) 2) she has a wicked bent pinky (meaning she lies allot and what's more is it's bent inwards to the ring finger so she lies to just make herself look good and interesting) 3) shE has bad palm colour (meaning she is not doing anything constructive physically or mentally)

I hate people because they are so inconsiderate and self serving (like what happened to the poor 2 year old girl in china. Makes me fucking sick!). No one gives a fuck unless it's going to affect them then they are up in arms because no one is stoping what the fuck ever.

People are so damn lazy. No one wants to work and they want cars and iPods and the latest and greatest of everything and will lie cheat and steal to get them but won't work like a "regular" person to get them. People want high paying jobs where they can sit around and do nothing. There's a guy at my work who has a bachelors in bussiness that wants a promotion just because he has a degree. He is slow as fuck and constantly says "I got my degree so I wouldn't have to work like this!". I have seen parents teaching their kids to steal! I heard one tell their son "if your stupid ass gets caught I don't know you so get it right.".

People are disgusting and I hate them.

GunZet
10-19-2011, 08:01 PM
All I wear are plaid button ups and Dickies.

CypressDahlia
10-19-2011, 08:06 PM
I remember a certain conversation about marriage that would fit perfectly here.

Psy
10-19-2011, 08:06 PM
All I wear are plaid button ups and Dickies.

So you're a cholo?

Hamachi
10-19-2011, 08:09 PM
You do realize people can have bad palm color because of asthma, right?

Delphinus
10-19-2011, 08:13 PM
I hate people because they are so inconsiderate and self serving...

I hate people because they're shallow and unskilled and impotent. Self-serving is fine imo, lazy is fine imo, but people who sell themselves like workhouse whores to make a meagre wage (anyone who survives through wage labour and isn't gunning for promotion to upper management) are living pointless tedious lives. They tend to be pointless and tedious themselves.

Actually, a lot of what you say pretty much sounds like the ideology of those corporate whores. So I disagree with you.

EDIT: also that girl's appearance actually doesn't piss me off because all the people I've known who dress that batshit insanely were pretty cool and didn't give a shit about fashion etc. and she's pretty hot

EDIT2: though the tediously normal makeup and the narcissistic concern for her hair worries me re. her probable personality

Psy
10-19-2011, 08:16 PM
I'm not reading anyone else tho just her. I'm just reading what I see. If I could see her hand clearer I could make a judgement on the state of her health. Also shed probably be dead if she had asthma judging by the size of her hair and the amount of hairspray required to do it.

GunZet
10-19-2011, 08:18 PM
So you're a cholo?

Nah I usually have this general look, except either a beanie or a hat at all times, and maybe a hoodie.
http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/100820/100820,1271799804,1/stock-photo-three-skateboarder-kids-standing-in-parking-lot-together-51590524.jpg

Delphinus
10-19-2011, 08:19 PM
and I just look like a spoiled rich kid

EDIT: I guess what I really hate are people who are mediocre and content to be mediocre (unambitious). Why can't everyone be more like this?


Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rage at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Renzokuken
10-19-2011, 08:26 PM
Why are you so full of brash generalizing attacks. I'm middle class but I have some great Dungeons and Dragons stories to tell. I live a consumerist fantasy and I'm already fairly conservative, but will never marry and have children. Given, I don't buy the things I consume, edible and non. If you're going to try to make a humorous post you have to ham it up and soak it and keep it down to Mars, not dry and Earthly like the Arizona desert. Look what I'm trying to say here is it's pointless to spend your time watching anything other than infomercials on cable

http://www.thisishowyoudoit.com/howtoimages/scene-girl-1.jpg

Scene kids...

*grits teeth*

Delphinus
10-19-2011, 08:28 PM
^ i'd hit it

EDIT: but then while I'm a rugged individualist (eccentric guy who everyone knows) at school I tend to chill with either the misfit group, scene kids, or preps, not that we have cliques as much as you guys do in america

Psy
10-19-2011, 08:30 PM
I still think you're a closet gangster.

Also I don't have a problem with people wanting better for themselves but to do it at the cost of others is wrong. If you want a promotion because of status it's wrong IMO because you did nothing to deserve it. Demanding that you get a promotion when your only accomplishment is that you have a degree but no experience in the field is maddening to me. I applaud anyone who gets a higher education but it is stupid how they think that's a sure fire ticket to the good life. I work retail and I have been trying to get a promotion for the last three years and have seen the worst choices ever get picked because they were friends with the district manager or their dad is a store manager or they were a good church going Christian. At this point I don't know if I really want a promotion if it takes this level of underhandedness and ass kissing to get there.

GunZet
10-19-2011, 08:31 PM
^ i'd hit it

I thought it was a skunk.

Psy
10-19-2011, 08:34 PM
I thought it was a skunk.

The hair is called coon tails so it'd be a raccoon.

Renzokuken
10-19-2011, 08:35 PM
^ i'd hit it

EDIT: but then while I'm a rugged individualist (eccentric guy who everyone knows) at school I tend to chill with either the misfit group, scene kids, or preps, not that we have cliques as much as you guys do in america

They usually are really attractive, tbf. This isn't a good example but they usually have a lot of pasty makeup.

I can kind of relate to that last point, I'm a kind of group wanderer, or so people say

Delphinus
10-19-2011, 08:36 PM
@psy: Yeah, watching people who don't deserve it overtake me is one of the main motivations I have for working hard. If I'm like the golden child and valedictorian then nobody is fucking rising above me just because their daddy is an investment banker.

EDIT: I keep having people greet me and introduce themselves (and occasionally girls hugging/glomping me). I have no idea who 3/4 of these people are. I think that makes me popular but w/e.

EDIT 2: Of the (like, dozens, tons) of people I know I can have an interesting conversation with maybe 3 of them and they're all female.

Renzokuken
10-19-2011, 08:40 PM
You're held in some regard, it seems.

CypressDahlia
10-19-2011, 08:49 PM
I hang out with people who share similar interest with me. /so weird

Renzokuken
10-19-2011, 08:52 PM
I hang out with people who share similar interest with me. /so weird

Yeah same. These guys are the ones who don't 'fit in'.

GunZet
10-19-2011, 09:06 PM
I hang out people who act just like me or worse. So it's just a giant shitfest.

Joosh
10-19-2011, 09:26 PM
I have like 3 best friends that I hang and talk with a LOT, and then other people.

Bacon_Barbarian
10-19-2011, 10:30 PM
I hang out with D&D nerds. And music geeks.

Black_Shaggie
10-19-2011, 11:39 PM
Okay. I'm generally neither cynical or an asshole but...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-k_IZP1dGkjA/TWKqlN1yUvI/AAAAAAAAA5s/UnPiebft-UI/s1600/funny+gangsta+wannabe.jpg

...I have a serious problem with this whole thing here. These punk kids who think their thugs & gangstas. I mean...WHY IN THE FUCK CAN ANYONE POSSIBLY BE (and I qoute) "GANGSTA" WITH THEIR FUCKING PANTS DOWN AROUND THEIR ANKLES?

A) You can't expidite your flight from the local authorities.
B) Everyone will laugh at you when they see your tiny willy.
C) If you knew why the real criminals you worship sagged in the 1st place, you'd probally pull your pants up to your fucking neck.
D) Just because Lil' Wayne, Drake, justin Beiber & other rap artists on the pop charts say it's cool to be a thug doesn't make true.
E) At the end of the day you know you'd best have your little asses at home & your homework done before 8:30...when you go to bed.
F) Real gangsters operate under a code of: Loyalty, Honnor& Respect. These ideals aren't just for them either. You snot nosed punks have obviously missed that variable when you decided to emulate that gangster lifestyle.
G) umm..Why would want to aspire to the mere status of a Thug? Aren't their other criminal archtypes to model yourselves after?

Another thing...just because you happen to know some gang signs & you were hazed into your 'local gang' doesn't make you or affiliate you with the real ones. You're all zombie-brained frauds & slaves to pop culture who can't muster one synapse's charge worth of concious thought & should be shipped off to military school. At least their, you learn some discipline.

But ultimately, I don't balme you or the music. I blame your parents for allowing you to think it's cool to smokes with cigarettes & do hood rat stuff with your friends.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9Ic-rKVhwD8

You parents should only blame yourselves for not taking the time out to educate your children on who's in charge & why you should respect authority. You all should be ashamed of yourselves for reinforcing an allready horrible sterotype & should be shipped off to a remote dester island somwhere.
The next time I'm on the bus or the train & you scare some old lady who's on her way home from work out of her seat, I'm going to take you over my knee & whoop your ass with your own belt & make you pull your fucking pants up when I'm done.

ClockHand
10-19-2011, 11:56 PM
Dude calm down, they just were having butt sex. It's the only explanation.

GunZet
10-20-2011, 12:10 AM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-k_IZP1dGkjA/TWKqlN1yUvI/AAAAAAAAA5s/UnPiebft-UI/s1600/funny+gangsta+wannabe.jpg

lmfao...I hope they weren't being srs.

Bacon_Barbarian
10-20-2011, 12:17 AM
The internet is serious business.

jubeh
10-20-2011, 12:33 AM
Is that one dude wearing pants over another set of pants.

Hayashida
10-20-2011, 12:41 AM
double pants man. It be fresh, son.

GunZet
10-20-2011, 12:50 AM
I think one dude is saggin' his boxers too.

indescribable
10-20-2011, 02:01 AM
I hope he doesn't get too warm in that coat.

Hayashida
10-20-2011, 02:03 AM
ITT: Del hates on people who dress differently from him

CypressDahlia
10-20-2011, 02:24 AM
No wonder those guys keep getting arrested by police. They're always caught //with their pants down// ohohohohoho~

Evil_Cake
10-20-2011, 02:30 AM
huehuehuehue

Hayashida
10-20-2011, 02:34 AM
jajajajajajajaja

GunZet
10-20-2011, 03:20 AM
kekekekekekeke

Delphinus
10-20-2011, 04:50 AM
ITT: Del hates on people who think differently to him

Corrected for political reasons

EDIT:
I still think you're a closet gangster.

Why would I want to be a gangster when upper management is less likely to be arrested?

EDIT 2: Love that in very little time this thread got 5 pages and the optimistic thread got 2 posts.

Black_Shaggie
10-22-2011, 03:50 PM
EDIT 2: Love that in very little time this thread got 5 pages and the optimistic thread got 2 posts.

Damn. I guess we're just cynical assholes in the end...

Bacon_Barbarian
10-22-2011, 03:56 PM
Only a Cynical Asshole would say that.

GunZet
10-22-2011, 04:00 PM
I think Del was running a little experiment.

jubeh
10-22-2011, 04:02 PM
I think Del was running a little experiment.

Um or all you guys need to chill out and stop being mad at dudes for no reason

Bacon_Barbarian
10-22-2011, 04:03 PM
It's fun to be mad though.

GunZet
10-22-2011, 04:11 PM
I'm probably the chillest member here. *shrugs*

Sylux
10-23-2011, 02:03 AM
I love how you guys are being angry with each other instead of at each other

Black_Shaggie
10-23-2011, 05:37 PM
I can't possibly take any of this seriously.

CypressDahlia
10-23-2011, 06:27 PM
THEN WHEN AREN'T YOU LAUGHING AT MY JOKE?!

Renzokuken
10-24-2011, 05:17 AM
It's fun to be mad though.

Nah, just easy.

CypressDahlia
10-24-2011, 05:01 PM
I'm taking the middleground in everything because leftists are so melodramatic and paranoid that it pisses me off, but I'm also mad at how high my tuition rates are. Man...

Black_Shaggie
10-24-2011, 09:33 PM
THEN WHEN AREN'T YOU LAUGHING AT MY JOKE?!

ROTFL!

GunZet
10-25-2011, 12:34 AM
lololololol u funni Cype.

Delphinus
10-25-2011, 08:56 AM
I'm taking the middleground in everything because leftists are so melodramatic and paranoid that it pisses me off, but I'm also mad at how high my tuition rates are. Man...

I think you missed the tutorial on postmodernism.

CypressDahlia
10-25-2011, 10:03 AM
Oh no I used to live in DC, trust me there are enough raggedy hippies hanging around Union Station for me to know what that's all about. They offered me pamphlets.

Delphinus
10-25-2011, 10:58 AM
Just saying that drawing a dichotomy between left and right-wing is a bit antiquated.

CypressDahlia
10-25-2011, 11:29 AM
It is, but such is the state of our politics, isn't it? Even people who try to write themselves off as sophists are really just saying "don't buy into the conservative media."

Delphinus
10-25-2011, 01:18 PM
Eh, the whole left-right debacle amounts to "choose between over-powerful government and over-powerful transnational corporations" at this point, anyway.

Stuff like "don't buy into the conservative media" is more of a starting point than anything else. Even if I were a conservative (I've been tempted, but their social policies and rampant, idealistic free-marketing are both idiotic), I wouldn't buy into the conservative media.

CypressDahlia
10-25-2011, 04:06 PM
Yeah, I guess. But then there are those guys who are paranoid about every--little--thing. I guess we could call them contrarians or just plain conspiracy theorists. The whole purpose of dialectics is to evaluate arguments in favor of the truth, but some people just don't trust ANYTHING, nevertheless give it some thought.

Sylux
10-27-2011, 07:28 AM
Both party medias are bad for intellect.

CypressDahlia
10-27-2011, 11:22 AM
Sadly a lot of people don't realize that leftist propaganda is just as bad and more effective than conservative media. Simply because they use relevant problems and turn them into irrelevant conspiracy theories. And for people who are looking for quick and easy answers to their problems or play the blame-game, that's very much appealing.

Delphinus
10-27-2011, 11:54 AM
As I was having a conversation with myself yesterday, I came up with a good summary of the left-versus-right wing debate.

The mainstream right wing is more fanatical than the mainstream left wing, but both movements have fanatics in equal measure.

CypressDahlia
10-27-2011, 12:05 PM
I think the best conclusive statement for this talk is "FUCKING HIPSTERS".

Bacon_Barbarian
10-29-2011, 03:37 PM
This is why you listen to NPR and watch C-SPAN and ignore Fox and CNN

Sylux
10-30-2011, 02:24 AM
Um or learn about news and history from you know primary sources

Gedeon
10-30-2011, 09:54 AM
One day my girl mate told me that i look like her father. I asked why, and she replied:
"Cuz of that button-shirt and shoes."




http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSqEz09iewUIfyKMMR1r94T9IHpWn_Am 6psAo_F1zXBp7Q3Krreuw
WHAT THE FUCK!!!???
It seems that if a dude of my age doesn't wear jeans or tracksuits with Airmax or armani shoes, with a popular jacket called "Shushkavac"http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRSGrXzJTDb1BFjiuOyGGfFG-JL_73YYOnQWDmgImzpv4FSZD7Z either look's old or not "in"..............

Bacon_Barbarian
10-30-2011, 04:52 PM
That's not really cynical. Though, I have been called out on wearing button-down shirts before. This from a freshman who has the mental capabilities of a 12 year old.

GunZet
10-30-2011, 05:33 PM
A jacket called the 'Shushkavac,' man, that's just asking for it bro.

Sylux
10-31-2011, 11:23 PM
Time to don my shushkavak and whip some tail

jubeh
11-01-2011, 12:01 AM
Would you like to place an order on a shushkavak, stalker

Slurpee
11-02-2011, 06:22 PM
God my day's been all around fan fucking tastic.
had to sit next to people screaming about religion on the bus for a good two hours.
don't they realize that their arugement is null and void; people have already argued about this stuff.

Sylux
11-02-2011, 06:36 PM
I'm beyond religion

Delphinus
11-02-2011, 09:25 PM
I am god

Sylux
11-02-2011, 09:39 PM
You forgot an uppercase letter buddy also the joke is stagnant

Delphinus
11-02-2011, 09:47 PM
the joke is stagnant

The black wildcat is rushing to Delaware

Sylux
11-02-2011, 10:25 PM
Are you talking about wing offense because you're not making any sense

Delphinus
11-02-2011, 10:53 PM
You're not with the Allies, are you? Damn krauts!

Sylux
11-04-2011, 09:28 PM
I mad bros. I real mad.

Gedeon
11-04-2011, 11:06 PM
Now you only need a Shushkavac!

Sylux
11-04-2011, 11:16 PM
Yeah so I can bust some heads with proper attire

GunZet
11-05-2011, 12:02 AM
I swear that just sounds like a brand of really quiet vacuums.

CypressDahlia
11-05-2011, 05:04 AM
I hate it when people try too hard to dig for controversy, especially since this generation is like a new wave of hippies who think not being allowed to dig for worms in Rock Creek Park is somehow a civil rights violation.

Sylux
11-05-2011, 12:51 PM
Controversy is wack it was a cool word when I was 12

Delphinus
11-05-2011, 01:57 PM
I don't need to dig for controversy. It follows me like a faithful-but-smelly hound.

Fenn
11-05-2011, 02:55 PM
Why is everyone so cynical here?

digitek
11-05-2011, 03:00 PM
I just want to know why everyone is such an asshole.

Sylux
11-05-2011, 06:26 PM
Because we all like to take dumps before we sleep

Tetsuphil
11-05-2011, 06:43 PM
I like to play gameboy when I take a dump :D

Peteman
11-05-2011, 07:04 PM
Because it's easier to complain, and wine and moan and not actually do anything about it.

CypressDahlia
11-05-2011, 07:10 PM
Man what do you want me to do go around punching hippies in the head.

Sylux
11-05-2011, 07:13 PM
Wait so what is that not what you're supposed to do

Gedeon
11-05-2011, 07:28 PM
Nah man. That IS the RIGHT thing to do!

Sylux
11-05-2011, 07:30 PM
Oh okay good cuz that's all I ever do especially when I get a sour bagel from that damn hipster Panera

Peteman
11-05-2011, 07:49 PM
I meant in general....but go and punch hippies by all means if it makes you feel better.:cat_exasperated:

digitek
11-06-2011, 11:04 AM
Punching hippies is the national sport of my country. It's completely normal.

CypressDahlia
11-06-2011, 01:22 PM
Hey, guys, personal question:

who annoys you more? Militant christians or militant atheists?

I mean, I really don't like the value system of the former, but doesn't it just piss you off when a beanie-wearing college douchebag like openly announces he's atheist at the slightest mention of religion and then like looks around the group waiting for accolades of how ahead of the curve he is. Like I want to punch //that guy//. Or that blonde girl who's like "yeah, religion is stupid; God is made up" but you know that she's so fucking dumb that she would very well believe in scientology if someone told her it was less stupid than the last thing.

In other words; religious beliefs are becoming a goddamn fad and it's annoying the hell out of me.

Slurpee
11-06-2011, 03:42 PM
I hate it when both do it. It's just so annoying. Nobody cares about your beliefs these days =.=
I mean i am extremely liberal but i don't go around wearing rainbows and saying SUPPORT -insert something here-

CypressDahlia
11-06-2011, 03:49 PM
Yeah. People who wear their beliefs on their sleeve (sometimes quite literally) are annoying as hell because they're looking for some kind of credit. Like I'm going to walk up to them and pat them on the back. Oh, you're so smart atheist guy, show those sheeple who's boss. Or, oh you're so profound Christian guy, way to be righteous.

Peteman
11-06-2011, 03:53 PM
http://xkcd.com/774/

CypressDahlia
11-06-2011, 03:59 PM
Hell yeah I feel superior to them.

Sylux
11-06-2011, 04:16 PM
It doesn't even bother me because I had those thoughts at like 13. 3 years later, I'm pretty over it.

GunZet
11-06-2011, 04:18 PM
Yea, I hate both. Although the mili-Athiests a bit more, they seem to have their heads stuck up their asses at least a centimeter more than the mili-Christians. And let everyone know that.

CypressDahlia
11-06-2011, 04:22 PM
The idea of preaching tolerance through intolerance is pretty funny, you have to admit.

GunZet
11-06-2011, 04:31 PM
Pretty fkin' retarded, I'd say. Lol.

Delphinus
11-06-2011, 05:17 PM
There's not really any intolerant atheists. I don't recall seeing atheists beating a guy for being religious, or telling children they're going to be tortured for being religious, or throwing their children out for being gay (gay agenda, clearly). There are atheist pricks with superiority complexes, sure, but not intolerant ones. If you claim to have met an intolerant atheist, then you don't know the meaning of intolerance.

So militant Christians. For some stupid reason, they're more acceptable and we're not allowed to tell them to shut up and sit down when they start some wholly irrelevant conversation in class.

CypressDahlia
11-06-2011, 05:28 PM
If you claim to have met an intolerant atheist, then you don't know the meaning of intolerance.

This sentence reads as being very ironic.

Peteman
11-06-2011, 05:33 PM
Theres more types of persecution than physical persecution. Religion is as much a part of a persons identity as it is 'thier religion'. So when an athiest starts bashing any form of Chrisitianity it is very easy to be horribly mean to the person who is not millitant yet still a Christian. In addition when most athiest argue they are, in there minds, attacking 'the religion'; when they are in fact attacking the person who holds those views. What I'm trying to say is one man's 'tolerance' is another mans 'persecution.'

It is good to look at both sides of the coin.

Also I disagree with your statement millitant Chrisitianity is more acceptable, per se. It's probably more likely that millitant Christian are more acceptable where there are other millitant Christians.

Edit: Heh, this isn't a very cynical post is it? Oops.

CypressDahlia
11-06-2011, 05:47 PM
When your main point against an establishment is that it preaches intolerance, your main platform should not be that someone else's personal values are "wrong". That's just hypocritical.

Harvester_Of_Sorrow
11-08-2011, 10:31 PM
I agree with that. My platform is that their values,opinions and ideas of their religion are founded on something unproven, and if one were to insist on believeing said value, opinion or idea despite this, they are a delusional moron. And thats an objective fact.

How can one be a 'militant' athiest anyway?

Peteman
11-08-2011, 10:36 PM
The same way a Christian can. By aggresivly pronouncing to people that thier views are right and everyone else is a delusional moron.

Edit: So you believe someone is weird for valuing kindness, generosity, forgiveness and love? Those are Christian values are they not?

GunZet
11-08-2011, 10:54 PM
Yea, like those dudes that attack someone at the slightest mention of God, and start a whole deal about it, and how there is no God.
Those types of Athiests I can't stand. It's almost as if they're trying to make themselves feel better about something.

Harvester_Of_Sorrow
11-08-2011, 11:27 PM
The same way a Christian can. By aggresivly pronouncing to people that thier views are right and everyone else is a delusional moron.

Edit: So you believe someone is weird for valuing kindness, generosity, forgiveness and love? Those are Christian values are they not?

No, those are human values. The fact that said human is also a Christian is irrelevant. And I made it very clear that your values, opinions or ideas are only delusional moronary if you concede they are unproven but believe in them regardless. That just makes one silly. This is not my personal opinion, this is an objective fact. If you can provide proof or some kind of reason for your belief in said being, then by all means let me know it.

And I agree, GunZet, when someone just mentions a God or Gods and immediatly someone jumps on that person for it, I find that kinda annoying too, but only when its not relevant to the conversation. If you are talking about a God or Gods, then say what you like on the subject.

Peteman
11-10-2011, 06:46 PM
No, those are human values. The fact that said human is also a Christian is irrelevant.

I'm sorry, but I'm studying Anthropology and that is a very wrong assumption. The ones I've mentioned are modern neo-liberal (in terms of all of history not modern politics) ideals at best. The social/cultural 'group' (I use that term loosely as cultures shift and overlap.) It's true that one does not have to be a Chrisitian to uphold those values, but being part of a larger cultural group which does, is. Even the notion of love which I mentioned is not neccessrily the same in western society as ii would be in say...Papa new Guinea


And I made it very clear that your values, opinions or ideas are only delusional moronary if you concede they are unproven but believe in them regardless.

You said nothing about the other person conceding they are unproven. Though yes, saying something is true and not true is quite illogical.
What you said was:


My platform is that their values,opinions and ideas of their religion are founded on something unproven,

Just because they are unproven to you it does not mean they are unproven to everybody. Even the very 'logic' with which your mind works is shaped by your sociocultural values.

Gedeon
11-10-2011, 06:54 PM
Well its ball's for me since in my country where its a custom to be religious, so when we had Civil class we mentioned religion and the professor asked "Who here is religious?" Everyone except me said yes. And then all hell broke lose......." OH my god Gedeon! How can you not believe in god!!!?? Are you even baptized!!!?" Asked my class-mate who breaks at least 5 of the 10 commandments each day, and hasn't even opened the bible. Amused by her reaction i replied: "What father in their right mind wold take someone seriously, if he's name is Gedeon?!" And she said "Sorry Gedeon i can't be friends with you anymore" Of course it was a joke, and after that we all walked to the bus station together as always, but the thing that bugs me the most is that a lot of kids here in Serbia believe in god just cuz their parents said so, and there are even those that say that they don't really like the whole concept of christian religion, and are more conformable with the Buddhism. But they say that they don't wanna bother with changing religion. Sorry for the rant but i would like to ask how many people that are atheists, but went to the church some time in their past, do you know?

Delphinus
11-10-2011, 07:06 PM
I'm sorry, but I'm studying Anthropology and that is a very wrong assumption. The ones I've mentioned are modern neo-liberal (in terms of all of history not modern politics) ideals at best. The social/cultural 'group' (I use that term loosely as cultures shift and overlap.) It's true that one does not have to be a Chrisitian to uphold those values, but being part of a larger cultural group which does, is. Even the notion of love which I mentioned is not neccessrily the same in western society as ii would be in say...Papa new Guinea
Fair comment. However, it's not a defence of Christianity's illogical elements; those can be demonstrated to be false. You can say that a person's beliefs are shaped by their environment, and that makes sense, but laws of logic are objective. Saying that the fallacy of popularity or the problem of evil are not based on objective truths is equivalent to saying that 2+2=5 (great song). Also, we don't care if you're studying anthropology: pulling rank in a debate is bad practice, as you should know.


Just because they are unproven to you it does not mean they are unproven to everybody. Even the very 'logic' with which your mind works is shaped by your sociocultural values.

The first sentence: fine, if obvious. "Just because you don't accept it it doesn't mean others can't accept it!" No shit, sherlock. When Harvester of Sorrow said 'proven', though, I think he meant 'able to withstand critical analysis without falling apart into slag'.

The latter is what's known as epistemic relativism, and is postmodernist drivel. (Read Intellectual Impostures by Alan Sokal and Jean Bricmont to see why) There are areas where arguing relativism is acceptable: knowledge of reality is not one. Logic itself is not a western value, and claiming that it is denies the fact of the evolution of philosophical schools in the Far East, the Middle East, and India - i.e. in all of the oldest large-scale civilisations. I'd think as an anthropology student you'd know of the development of those cultures. I don't include tribal cultures because they're too small to require elaborate and formalised systems of governance and logic: few tribes have built, say, cathedrals.
I think I've exposed myself to criticism for treating science as a meta-narrative. But - for the sane and intellectually honest - it ought to be fairly obvious that reality itself is a meta-narrative, and that science, mathematics, and logic reflect, to a greater or lesser extent, that reality.
Note that by 'science' I mean the hard sciences. I wouldn't include the social sciences or humanities, because their theory is, as you say, inextricable from cultural factors. Reality, on the other hand, doesn't change just because you believe it has. That's the definition of it.

Peteman
11-10-2011, 07:16 PM
To Gedeon: Personaly not many. But in my experiance young people who are raised in a Christian family with a Christan circle of friends tend to turn away once they get to univerisity. For the first time they meet people who's opinions differ radically to thiers and drop them in order to fit in etc. Which I think is sad, Christianity was (originally) never about giving people little comfort bubbles. Also I think it's possible to tell when someone is genuine or not. Given that this is the cynical asshole thread it's about time i said something cynical. I mean what's up with those people? Stop being such ****** sheep! If your gonna go for it, make up your own mind! Don't do it because all your friends are doing it.

To Delphinious: Sorry for 'pulling rank' that was not my intention.


Reality, on the other hand, doesn't change just because you believe it has. That's the definition of it.

I'm not so sure. Could it not be possible that if a person believes something that reality changes for that person? For example the placebo effect? Or alternatively if someone really believed the sky was green for them the sky might well be green? People with 'mental diseases' may very well have a different view of reality which explains the way they behave. I'm no longer arguing a point now I'm curious.

Peteman

CypressDahlia
11-11-2011, 07:25 AM
Logic and truth are often associated, but truth and belief are not always so. Now, should we all pursue truth? Probably, yes. But there are plenty of scenarios where belief in something untrue is not necessarily harmful or, even, beneficial. I mean we've all heard of the "white lie", right?

Harvester_Of_Sorrow
11-13-2011, 12:33 AM
I'm sorry, but I'm studying Anthropology and that is a very wrong assumption. The ones I've mentioned are modern neo-liberal (in terms of all of history not modern politics) ideals at best. The social/cultural 'group' (I use that term loosely as cultures shift and overlap.) It's true that one does not have to be a Chrisitian to uphold those values, but being part of a larger cultural group which does, is. Even the notion of love which I mentioned is not neccessrily the same in western society as ii would be in say...Papa new Guinea

Well done for studing Anthropology. I don't care and that has no relevance to this discussion. I am studing lingustics and the term 'value' is very much applicable to what I said in my last post. The fact that Christianity took values that were already there and called them Christian values, in accordance to their cultural group, does not change anything. And I'm guessing you have not been to Papua New Guinea. I have, and I assure you their notion of love is no different from ours. Not sure what that has to do with anything though.


Just because they are unproven to you it does not mean they are unproven to everybody. Even the very 'logic' with which your mind works is shaped by your sociocultural values.

Does the logic in which my mind works, which was shaped by my sociocultural values, depend on evidence? Yes. So does everyone elses. That is how we determine what is true and not true, real and unreal, proven and unproven. And if it is proven to someone else then it is up to them to supply evidence, assuming they want others to believe what they do.

ClockHand
11-13-2011, 12:44 AM
Does the logic in which my mind works, which was shaped by my sociocultural values, depend on evidence? Yes. So does everyone elses. That is how we determine what is true and not true, real and unreal, proven and unproven. And if it is proven to someone else then it is up to them to supply evidence, assuming they want others to believe what they do.

I though we determine reality through logic and dialogue )=


Just because they are unproven to you it does not mean they are unproven to everybody. Even the very 'logic' with which your mind works is shaped by your sociocultural values.

If a group of people believe in something and then they meet people who believe in something else what happens? there is a clash of belief and obviously the group with the strongest speech or the strongest army will win, and that is how we have dealt with true in the whole history. Of course now we have logic, different kinds of logic, and those have reinforced their speech, make it stronger, and all that through dialogue (its worthless to just think and don't speak, because through dialogue we see what is wrong and good about each other speech).

Religions hasn't improved their speech, but logic has and society to, and those have also improved the level of the dialogue. As religion is every hour more behind than those, it makes it more and more weak against the discussions. At the end, you can't say religions have proves unless they do have, because the discussion at the moment have the standard very high and as I said, religion hasn't changed to adapt to this discussions.

And every society follows a logic, as you study anthropology you might know about Émile Durkheim and the Structural functionalism theory, that says that every society is constructed by functional patterns. Also you have others anthropologists like Levis-Strauss, who, influenced by Durkheim, develop the Structuralist theory, saying that every social group have a structure and every human have the same mind patterns (he explain there are 3). This say that logic is not something outside of the human being, the analytic thinking with use of hypothesis and observation is part of us (we call it logic), the how we express it is different, but the base is the same. So we can't say "under their logic it might be true", because at the end their logic has the same principle than us, the difference is in how we don't chose what to put under our logic and what not, what to disprove and what not. Dialogue force us to disprove.

Delphinus
11-13-2011, 03:39 PM
^ Careful about attempting to apply the scientific method to the social sciences, it leads to all sorts of problems.

Bacon_Barbarian
11-13-2011, 04:13 PM
Religion is interesting ... Peteman was saying how people (generally) break away from religion once they get into a more diverse group, and while I don't disagree or disagree, I think there's something he's missing. People may no longer believe in God, but they don't give up on the values that have been drilled into them. For example, as a Quaker, I've never actually believed in God per se, but I do believe that war is never the answer.

I'm not sure if this post actually had a point/conveyed what I was trying to say. :/