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View Full Version : Francy's Art - Critique wanted - Some NSFW.



FrancysPai
10-18-2011, 07:55 AM
Well, I've been going through a phase of resketching lately, I'd love some critique on how to make everything that much better;



Comparison;
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-YCqg_QLBNvM/TpD1jxyfzhI/AAAAAAAAACU/5IokIo6qpF8/s1600/redrawingvega.png

A little more added:
http://i52.tinypic.com/2ef3qiq.png

Started trying to B&W it, failing, I'm gonna go back and redo this later;
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-wMdbD75Q3cM/TpNkuqL9T-I/AAAAAAAAACY/KaVFWOLdWTQ/s1600/vegz.png

Known issues;
+ Needs more muscle definition
+ Less airbrushy looking shading
+ Lighter shading on the face for sure, his nose is making him look like a lion
+ Probably needs more creases in his pants too.

Other than that, fire away, there's gotta be more.




Next up, I'll let you click this one rather than post it, I don't like putting up NSFW stuff right off the bat;

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9QKrtAVn25o/To3D27Y61GI/AAAAAAAAACI/CdVV8sTTv7o/s400/submissivedic18plus.png (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-wf4TbouZqXI/TpNlU9-SQ-I/AAAAAAAAACc/KVSIlVcWoOM/s1600/tentacletime.png)

Known issues:
Folds in pants, but I don't know how to fix this, any tips? I'm crap with folds.
Table just doesn't look right, perspective needs a little sorting.




Linked because the entire image stretches the forum super far;

Clicky Clicky! (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-fedN3O_DWrU/To3H5zJCncI/AAAAAAAAACQ/8l4L4opBsnE/s1600/pillowtalktime.png)

I can wholely say that I'm super proud of this one, but where there's a will, there's a way and there's ALWAYS something that needs to be fixed.

Known Issues:
Their hands need sorting, I know what I'm doing here so I'll be editing that while you're critiquing everything else.





Last up is my recent piece. I've been wanting to make this look as perfect as possible x_x. It's NSFW and does have cocks which is why I'm giving you the option to click instead of throwing it in your face.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-6b7IOEIv2jQ/TptiaTbDivI/AAAAAAAAACw/cxNM3hduC3Q/s400/slipped.png (http://pics.livejournal.com/francyspai/pic/00044516)

Known issues and I REALLY want help with this;
Clothes. I have never coloured fabric before. Where am I going wrong?



Well...fire away.

SuperKasey
10-18-2011, 12:21 PM
/cracks knuckles. Let's blow this popsicle stand.

Picture One: You cleaned up the lines quite a bit and yes all in all it does look a lot nicer. I'm just not sure you really fixed some of the errors though. For one his abdominal muscles are much too small as they near the bottom of his torso and the obliques have been placed in the wrong spot. Also the position of his hand and fingers seems static and loose kinda like he's just letting it flop around while in the pose. When doing an activity like this most of the time even your hands will tense up. Try playing around with some cool "karate chop" hands or maybe something with the fingers spread, but whatever you do I'd like to see more tension an purposeful placement.

Picture Two: Yay, I'm not at work right now! /clicks. First thing that I noticed is that the perspective is off in the BG. If you're going to make the decision to tile the floor in the BG or draw a wood floor or a slatted ceiling, etc. . . you had damn well better get the perspective right because you've basically given your reader's eye guidelines right to your vanish point. Any errors here and they will be blaring ones. Make sure that desk fits the rest of the perspective you have chosen and that the tiles don't just abruptly skew to suit it's location.
As for the pants, well first off the rim isn't usually so big that it can be loose like that in this position. It would either be stretched tight or up higher. Also you should be able to see fabric from the back of his pants between his legs. The folds really aren't that bad I think you just need a little time to study clothing construction.
There's also an issue with his muscles seeming out of place or misshapen. More anatomy practice FTW.

Picture Three: You sick of me yet? Psh! Of course not! Okay okay okay, you really shouldn't draw every strand of the hair. It just doesn't look as nice or as deep or voluminous as when you block out the shapes and highlights first. Dark hair is drawn the same way I've just seen you draw blond hair.
Still seeing some issues with perspective here. The table, the window ledge and the blinds. They just don't line up like they should. Be careful with this.

Picture Four: My personal favorite ;D Not too many issues with this one, but you're right there is always room for improvement. Since you asked for help with clothes I'll give it. The way you've drawn them makes them look "lumpy" and at one point it even makes his left (our right) arm look broken! Oh noes!! Clothing drapes a figure and it will almost always hang and bunch at very predictable points. The only advice I can give for this is to learn the characteristics of different fabrics and draw from life. Learn how your clothes fold and pull and hang around your body. Look at them when you're just standing there and look at how they change when you move your limbs or twist your torso or hang upside down.

On a side-note: Yay, somebody who draws male nudity on this site besides me!! <3

Gedeon
10-18-2011, 05:31 PM
Well you certainly know your way around male anatomy (every inch of it ) But there are some disproportion's. Sorry that i can't point them all right know but im sure that in that long looong post that kasey poster are all the mistakes i noticed. But yeah mainly some more realistic proportions wouldn't hurt, but if you like'em the way they are now, i would say to still look at some photos for fold problems you said you have. :D hope it helped :D

FrancysPai
10-18-2011, 06:27 PM
I've only been drawing for little over a month now So I'm expecting a lot of errors :< I just didn't think it was so many :'<

I'll give the notes a look over in the morning and see what I can do. Not feeling very confident now...

FrancysPai
10-18-2011, 06:32 PM
Halfway through this and I'm losing confidence the further I go *sigh*


http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2011/291/5/0/sf__vega___wip2_by_francyspai-d4d887r.png

Maxx_Wellington
10-19-2011, 11:32 PM
the first spoiler: you improved, however the tattoo needs more deffinition. As for the shadows on the face; I say add more. A white face on a grey body looks strange. Also, there should be more shaddows where the hair starts, as the roots are usually hidden by hair over top them. Also watch your lightsource. it looks like there is a wall arround his hips, deviding two different light sources. if you want two. add two all arround. And his thumb is a little high... it looks like he has 5 fingers and no thumb... thumbs start out at the bottom of the hand and crease when closed.

Second spoiler: for this one I will concentrate on the table dimentions. Your table is two dimentional, thus has two vanishing points. That means whatever you put on it must have the same vanishing point, as everything else should. Right now, what you drew on the table looks actually drawn on a table. Also the drawer doesn't have the same vanishing points as the rest of the table. (ask if you need guide on what vanishing points are.

Third spoiler: pull the candles from the shades. you actually have the plate in the shades. Also the shades don't alter direction, they always stay the same. yours seems to be free willing. other than that, you have pretty good shadowing.

Fouth Spoiler: Clothes are tricky. Jeans don't have much variant while sued or valour has great variant when it comes to shadowing. use a vanishing point to find your light souce (a one point per light source) and shadow it accordingly, Also find out what fabric you are using (in your head) then go to a store and look at it if you need insparation. But clothes are tricky that way...



Fifth spoiler: Muscle shadowing is awesome. the first thing that popped at me is the tattoo. it's way too bright to be a tattoo. mix in some skin town into the purple to make it less invasive. Again, bring the thumb down. And lastly, the for-leg (if you will) is painted strangely. the lines don't follow the leg. Other than that, you've improved since the first pic I have seen.

CypressDahlia
10-20-2011, 05:25 AM
The first thing I see is that the nostrils and the bridge of the nose don't line up. The cheekbone is a little too sharp as well. And, though your sense of anatomy is pretty good, your figures often don't have a lot of volume to them. Your men, for their bulk, are too streamlined. This is due to how you convey the forms. There are not enough angles and the lines seem to flow too well. This is good for slender figures but since you like muscular men, you should take time to make sure large muscle groups have their contours drawn in. For example, you draw your forearms with single, smooth lines. But for men with such huge forearms, there should be more contours. Bring out the muscle a little more. Don't be afraid to break your lines and use angles instead of curves.

FrancysPai
10-20-2011, 08:42 AM
The first thing I see is that the nostrils and the bridge of the nose don't line up. The cheekbone is a little too sharp as well.

Which image?

I get what you're all saying, and I am trying, seriously. It's just difficult. I'm trying to not make excuses eventhough I have really only been doing this for little over a month, I feel like I'm not where I should be as it is =( I'm scared of experimenting because in my first two weeks everytime I tried something new, I'd get someone have a royal fit at me about it. No "You shouldn't use this because x, y, z" but more "DONT DO THIS EVAAAARRR!". So I've been super scared to try anything now. I haven't really drawn much over the past week because of it >_<

I'll try and fix everything you guys pointed out, but I'm lacking a ridiculous amount of motivation (especially after being told on another forum that all of my faces make them look like they have down syndrome. Laugh all you want, it's still upsetting.)

CypressDahlia
10-20-2011, 09:10 AM
On the latest Vega pic, I meant. The nostrils are too far to the left.

FrancysPai
10-20-2011, 10:17 AM
ohhh I getchoo. I'll sort that later on tonight since I'm still motivated enough to fix that piece. I think the other ones probably just need redrawing in general though :<

CypressDahlia
10-20-2011, 10:42 AM
Don't force yourself to fix them. You could always just keep the knowledge in the back of your mind for future pieces.

SuperKasey
10-20-2011, 11:04 AM
What Cype said.

Also, don't get upset D'8 I know drawing is really hard and it can be discouraging when you put your work up for critique and don't exactly get the response you were looking for. Just suck it up, learn from it and apply what you learn in the future. Honestly I wouldn't have known you'd only been drawing for a few months. I would have guessed a couple years. So seriously, don't get so down on yourself. You're off to a really great start :3

FrancysPai
10-20-2011, 11:31 AM
I don't know, I have really high expectations of myself.
I mean, I drew this on my first week of drawing, it's driving me absolutely insane because I want to go back and redo it with my currently knowledge now, see it it goes:

http://francyspai.deviantart.com/gallery/33112882#/d49n4z8
I just feel like i'm really behind everyone else and not really making improvements as I step along.

ClockHand
10-20-2011, 12:09 PM
Don't compare your self with other people, you should only compare with your self (zen moment). And its normal to find some draws (specially olds) bad or not enough for you, this happens specially the more you draw and the more you look at them, but the good side of this is that if you spot your problems, you can fix them and by better.

So keep drawing.

Maxx_Wellington
10-24-2011, 11:04 PM
I'll let you in on a little secret. Since 2006, I have acumulated 4 sketch pads (on my fifth) where the first one is a big thick book. Although I am only proud of maybe 5 total, I treasure each one. Even if I would redo a picture cause it looks that bad that I am ashamed of being the artist, I always see pride in it cause those were my roots. Each attempt at art, each failure, each success... they are all steping stones to who we are destined to become. (I used the word destined since who we are infulences our art). I could go on, but this isn't the place for an autobiography. Just keep in mind that no matter how bad the first drawing you did was, it is the foundation to the art you will do today.

Maxx_Wellington
10-24-2011, 11:11 PM
I just reread your previous posts, and I found this one, so forgive my doubble post


Which image?

II'm scared of experimenting because in my first two weeks everytime I tried something new, I'd get someone have a royal fit at me about it. No "You shouldn't use this because x, y, z" but more "DONT DO THIS EVAAAARRR!". So I've been super scared to try anything now. I haven't really drawn much over the past week because of it >_<

I'll try and fix everything you guys pointed out, but I'm lacking a ridiculous amount of motivation (especially after being told on another forum that all of my faces make them look like they have down syndrome. Laugh all you want, it's still upsetting.)

Art isn't a thing about how to do. There is not one single way to do art. There are billions. We might tell you where your art looks abnormal, but if you think about it, a man took a rectangle and a star shape and created one of the "best" cartoons of our time. So don't be affraid of experimenting in art. There aren't any methods or means that you can do that will make us disown you as our fourm friend. We are here to support and help, not hinder, cripple and handicap.

FrancysPai
10-25-2011, 04:39 AM
Thanks for the words of encouragement. On another note, I started this yesterday (Ignore the colouring, I'm starting on the bases, this is usually how most of my skin looks before I go to town on it and really hit the shading and highlights, hair too I'm still playing around)
Only thing I want focus on right now is both anatomy and Vega (Blonde one)'s eyes. I want them to be looking down and I have no idea how to be doing this, they look like theyre staring off... Any tips?



http://i54.tinypic.com/14msa5d.png

Psy
10-25-2011, 02:34 PM
Yay YAOI!

Hello its me the creepy gay dude of MT.
Are you using reff on this pic? iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiif not
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/12_02/BECKHAM101207_468x342.jpg
This might help with you wanting him to be looking down. Just change the head and it should work.
I couldnt find this exact pose in a real refference BUT I SURE HAD FUN TRYING!

FrancysPai
10-25-2011, 02:40 PM
Yaoi is pretty much all I draw XD. I wish I could draw girls, then I'd be bringing the yuri and futa out swinging, but alas I suck at drawing tits and even moreso hoo-hahs.

I wasn't using a reference, no XD I was trying my hand at drawing without one haha. Needless to say I think it went bad.
I think I get where you mean, a lot of it probably has to do with the pupils and eyebrows to be honest XD

Felt bad for not drawing my OTP since my avatar pic, so this just kinda happened hahaha

FrancysPai
10-25-2011, 04:19 PM
Excuse the double post but this is pretty much where that image is leading;



http://i52.tinypic.com/b6a3h0.png




Does anyone have any good kissing references? :<

Maxx_Wellington
10-26-2011, 11:29 PM
There is a decent kiss at the end of the little mermaid that stayed in my mind for art refferance, however kissing seems to be as much a signature as any manurism. IE: everyone does it differently. Some use more toung, some hold their partner's head. some kiss higher... And it also depends on the type of kiss... romantic, flirty, lustful or making out.

As for how I refferance faces, I draw the gyst of the head, like a stick figure, then I draw a line from the eye to whatever I want them to look at. If you want vega to look at his lover, then draw a line from Vega's eye position to his lover's head. Then adjust the head and body accordingly. Actually physically going into the position helps with muscle stress and comfort.

My suggestion for this paticular picture is to propt Vega on two pillows along his back, arching him so that his shoulders, neck and head are upright. That seems like the most comfortable position. Otherwise, you could keep his position as-is, raising his chest a bit, (which will reajust the position of the head) and rolling the eyes up to make a sence of pleasure, as an alternative.

As for his lover, (sorry I don't know his name) He seems to be hovering on the body as if not actually between Vega's legs. Allow the fat on his chin to interact with Vega's waist, or even tilt his head straighter aligned with Vega and draw his lips conpressed on Vega.

That's all the help I can think of with positionning. As for the pants, I was taught never to actually use black as a colour. Use 80&#37; or 90% grey to allow for shadowing. This will also help to understand what's going on down there.

FrancysPai
10-27-2011, 05:19 AM
Thanks for the tips. His little boyfriend's name is Bison XD (Yeah, I ship weird pairings.)

I've just started discovering the grey vs black thing for clothing when colouring my halloween image. Looks so much better starting off under grey and working on it.

I actually feel like I've drawn Bison's back wrong. I'm still really terrible with drawing backs :< I always seem to place the shoulderblades completely wrong and I feel I shouldn't really be able to see his other arm. But then he looks too skinny without it (He's supposed to be bulkier than Vega).
I figure I need to make it look like he's actually kissing his stomach as opposed to hovering haha.

CypressDahlia
10-27-2011, 10:41 AM
Ahah--wait hold on. This is an M Bison and Vega pairing? Oh snaps.

FrancysPai
10-27-2011, 10:43 AM
Ahah--wait hold on. This is an M Bison and Vega pairing? Oh snaps.

Yeah, I've shipped them since pretty much a week after their alt.1 costumes were released :< I saw the relationship chemistry in the Udon comics and just how they are in general, then Bison's alt 1 came out with the ripped up clothes and hanging down bangs (Hence he looks that way in all of my images) and I threw them together.
I've never had so much fun and flames with fanfiction in my life XD

Maxx_Wellington
10-28-2011, 01:55 AM
ok I am about to suggest another really crazy scheme. I am assuming you are a guy in a house, or appartment, so this method will work awesome: Kiss a wall.

The theory behind it is that your actions to kiss abs and to kiss a wall is the same thing. Your nose will get in the way a bit and you will compinsate by puckering your lips slightly and possibly tilting your head. Notice the way you kiss the wall and how your facial muscles move. Then use that as a refferance. That will help with Bison's hovering lips.

As for his back, it looks like you are trying to give him a profile view as Vega has more of a 3/4 view. Try matching views to help, If not, remeber that his back would be curved, in a way to stretch the back muscles and reduce the deffinition in the back. But anatomy isn't my strong suit.

FrancysPai
11-05-2011, 07:15 PM
Blaaaaahhh


http://i39.tinypic.com/inuxd2.png

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ynn39hWoQyU/TrMdAQiUnSI/AAAAAAAAAFQ/S7BkV1fcWZU/s1600/deytookarrrjerrrbs.png

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2xojkwKC9Lw/TrMdGOXlV-I/AAAAAAAAAFY/Jn80ZSh2-hA/s1600/nakedmen.png

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-zw04VZBHzqo/TrHQonCkfaI/AAAAAAAAAE4/nqD469FOQ-E/s1600/datass.png

ClockHand
11-05-2011, 10:19 PM
Why there are so many draws of my abs?

(and why my third leg wasn't drew)

I like the draws, but the continuity between body and face doesn't convince me. Try to lower a little the eyes, pull less distance between nose and mouth (not to much) and lower the chick bone a little (I think this could help in the 3/4 face). And well, try to experiment with the face elements and the face structure (I dunno I find way more useful to experiment).

FrancysPai
11-06-2011, 12:05 AM
Ive been trying to improve my faces, since I really just can't draw them for toffee :<

ClockHand
11-06-2011, 12:11 AM
Try to use guide lines (I don't know if you do, but if you do, try finding new patterns). When you start with the face structure in the guide lines, you can modify the final result through changes on the guide line (from this first step in drawing is where you start making decisions according to your final goal in the draw).

Gedeon
11-06-2011, 07:44 AM
Heard you got face problems :DITs pretty good to know how faces work, cuz if you don't it might be hard to make your drawings look diffrient. You alredy know how to make faces diffrient with subtle details like eyes and dimps in faces. But since im an egomaniac and i think that i can help you(t least a little bit) with facial anatomy, im gonna bore you to death with this little advice('s)
http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc362/Gedeon-Gedza/NewCanvas-2.jpg
1) Draw a basic head sketch
2) Make a vertical line over the face(depending on where you want your face to look at)
3) Mark the top of the head and the lowest point(chin)
4) Right in the middle of the vertical line draw a horizontal line that folows the circle behind it, that's the place for your eyes (Eye-line :D )
5) In the middle of the toppest point and the "eye-line" is where you make your "Forhead-line"
6) one third of the space between the forehead-line and the eye-line is where you put'em bushy brows :D

(now for the lower part of the face.....yes i know im boring....)
7)the middle of the the eye-line and the lowest line(chin) is where your nose will be
8) and for the last your mouth goes on one of the third's between the chin and the nose. BUT that's the so-called "perfect face"! People are recognizable because their faces strike away from the "perfect face" and that's what characteristics are (look at bison and vega, Bison is short'n'bulky and vega is long and slim).....but that's a whole other story and i've jabbered long enough :D Hope this helps.

FrancysPai
11-07-2011, 07:21 PM
Thing is...I do all of what you mentioned =/ I also prefer Bison more bishie.

So far so awful on going back to this >_< I've been drawing for almost three months now...this feels horrible to still be this bad at all of this;



http://i40.tinypic.com/2airmf8.png

FrancysPai
11-18-2011, 01:28 PM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Tfc6u_XUtHE/Trl-OjKb09I/AAAAAAAAAFo/IwEL0kJOwco/s1600/something+new.png

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2011/322/5/c/sf_vega___longing__by_francyspai-d4gj72b.png



http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-EXNaxXEPY5I/TsMHPRAc_wI/AAAAAAAAAGw/yUlnJSKU2Rw/s1600/fullbodycharacterstudy.png

FrancysPai
11-19-2011, 07:00 PM
Fml... I'm going crazy trying to get this right... Help? :cat_teardrop:

http://i39.tinypic.com/2nsvocm.png

ClockHand
11-20-2011, 12:06 AM
I haven't help people in a long time ago, and I don't like to do that to much anymore. Still no one has replied to you and I have accumulated a big karmic debt in the last days, so I'm going to try to help.

I'm using redlines (I hate them) to mostly point some flaws in the lines. Your weakness in the draw are basically the bone structure and postures; knowing how the bone is placed in different postures and where the muscles should be worked. Its easy to fix and easy to point, so yeah I'm not making a big job in this. Well redlines below, I hope its understandable, if not ask, and I just suck at working with the mouse.

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/1152/2nsvocm.png

FrancysPai
11-20-2011, 07:32 AM
I'm guessing the red line by his arm is his...body? Redlines (my friend does blue when she helps *laughs*) don't confuse me usually and they help a lot better than simply telling me. Thanks though :3 I feel my art is starting to piss people off hence the lack of help on my past few posts :<

ClockHand
11-20-2011, 12:51 PM
Dunno, in here redlines is the way people roll (I don't like it to much, but I'm lazy and this is quicker), and yes one of the red lines is for the arm length (and elbow with fore arm and hands).

I don't think the lack of help is good indicator of that, people can be busy at the moment or who knows. I think its good you are drawing the same character many times (I would blow my head if I start doing that, but if you like that or for it), cuz you can be fixing the mistakes and work in the poses, obviously it bring a problem to. Mainly, work in the poses, column of the character, face disposition and line control (some lines shouldn't end were they end). Just that and keep working.

FrancysPai
11-20-2011, 12:59 PM
I'm trying to get these two consistent, since were it not for loving these two characters, I would never have started drawing X3

ClockHand
11-20-2011, 01:26 PM
Most people start like that (when I was little I use to draw Megamans), and now look where they are. Keep drawing and keep getting better, even if is a slow steps its going to get cooler at the end.

Maxx_Wellington
11-23-2011, 11:36 PM
you came a long way FrancysPai. From page one to now, you have gotten much better. I give you a big piece of brownie with the works ( legal stuff)

anyways, before I critique, I would like to ask how how your blonde guy ( will check name in a bit) is staying on Bison? I asked this to know where the hands would be and how an uncontious (sleeping) man will have the strength to hold his arm up.

Also I would like to comend you (I hope that means give koodos) on the last picture of the blonde guy's tattoos.. the coloured one. you are finally making it look like a tattoo by removing the harshness that the purple creates on the skin (in other words, you are blending it into the skin better, making it look like a tattoo) So three cheers and rounds of beer!

FrancysPai
11-25-2011, 07:27 PM
I guess it's supposed to be going over him shoulder, like wrapping around his neck almost XD I just really can't do these poses worth a damn.

CypressDahlia
11-26-2011, 12:19 PM
You have a good understanding of contour, but you seem to have trouble expressing volume in your drawings, which is essential since the human body is really very curvaceous, even for men. Have you tried doing full anatomy studies (with shading)?

FrancysPai
11-26-2011, 04:54 PM
Yeah, my shading sucks pretty hard core.
It's going to take a long time and I'm on the verge of giving up with my artistic endeavours (yeah yeah, I've only been drawing since September, but I honestly expected to be further along by now.)

And speaking moreso of bad images;



http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2011/326/1/a/sf_vega___something_you_like____by_francyspai-d4gz5rt.png



Granted it was only a 30 minute sketch but aurgh.

Maxx_Wellington
11-26-2011, 11:52 PM
Sorry for the delay. The reason I asked is that depending how Vega his pressing on Bison's back, the arms could do a great many postures.

http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/1560/PreviewComp/SuperStock_1560R-2054736.jpg
http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/1560/PreviewComp/SuperStock_1560R-2054747.jpg
http://lovebryan.com/friends/chloemarcy/data/upimages/NYEpiggyback.jpg
http://jajuspot.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/wgm14.jpg
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_luu90m70SY1qlh6r3o1_500.jpg
http://www.123rf.com/photo_9563098_summer-portrait-of-happy-couple-handsome-man-carrying-pretty-girlfriend-on-back-laughing.html

You see, Vega's arms could be wrapping Bison many ways. Even if they are madly in love, if Vega passed out and Bison was carying him to safety, it would look differently (probably like the first pic in this link (http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=carrying+unconscious+on+back&um=1&hl=en&sa=X&biw=1024&bih=506&tbm=isch&tbnid=M_7YSArF8dsRqM:&imgrefurl=http://kdramachoa.com/&#37;25E2%2580%259Cmarry-me-mary%25E2%2580%259D-my-father-or-my-husband/&docid=sgZl4LdxIg9DmM&imgurl=http://www.kdramachoa.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Piggyback-Mary.jpg&w=550&h=413&ei=vcDRTrPqL8Wa2AWCnfC1Dw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=102&vpy=169&dur=180&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=111&ty=138&sig=105906293192840959327&page=6&tbnh=142&tbnw=187&start=52&ndsp=11&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:52) but like that pic, Bison's back would be more slanted as he is holding all of Vega's ballence.

So basically, to fully fix that image, I think it would be wize to know what is the reason Bison is carrying Vega....



As for your next image (just above) I have nothing but koodos to give as, especially for a thirty minute sketch, this is amazing!

hope that was helpful (or at least the first part ^^)

FrancysPai
11-27-2011, 06:33 AM
The reason why is because in a sparring session, Bison went a little too far and KO'd him XD so we have an unconscious guy here. So I basicaly need to pull Vega up a little higher?

Maxx_Wellington
11-27-2011, 01:18 PM
Well Since Vega's uncontious, he would have lost his ability to manipulate weight distribution. In other words, Bison would have to lean forward to hold Vega's weight without falling backwards. Also, unless Bison ties Vega's arms together, Vega's arms would just hang there, like a lifeless body. Implus, Bison wouldn't hold Vega's leg muscle but rather the breach between the glutious maximus and the glutious minimus. In other words, Bison would hold right under the butt. That will stop Vega's legs from throwing him off ballence and also allow Bison to use his arms in order to help support Vega's weight.

Your drawing was very good, however, it gave the impression that Vega was sleeping, which will allow the higher brain funtion to adjust weight management, but since Vega is passed out, his brain has temporarily shut down all functions except life threatening ones (ie- heart and breathing) in order to minimize the strain on itself. So now Bison will be more worried about carrying "dead" weight arround rather than giving a buddy a piggy back. It's all about how the centre of gravity has shifted onto Bison's legs.

here is a good example of this sort of art that I found on deviant art via google image search:
http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs10/i/2006/114/3/e/Piggy_back_ride_by_LadyKenora.jpg

And cause everyone needs to smile once in a while:
http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=unconscious+piggyback&um=1&hl=en&safe=off&sa=X&biw=1024&bih=506&tbm=isch&tbnid=eFMfMmVNsV2ycM:&imgrefurl=http://www.bestoday.com.au/sick/archives/funny/&docid=LS8Tr9Qq4OELSM&imgurl=http://www.bestoday.com.au/sick/images/piggyback.jpg&w=258&h=368&ei=XX3STt6UAqfY2gWo08WjDw&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=248&sig=105906293192840959327&page=2&tbnh=125&tbnw=88&start=10&ndsp=12&ved=1t:429,r:7,s:10&tx=43&ty=28

FrancysPai
11-27-2011, 03:18 PM
Haha.

Alright thank yous, I'll go back to it and redraw it. I'm more focused on trying to go back to basics right now after almost having a nervous breakdown about how utterly garbage that I am at drawing. It sucks :<

FrancysPai
11-27-2011, 06:45 PM
Lack of sleep + Epic immaturity + I really am going to quit if I open Paint Sai again and produce something as fricken awful as this.

http://i43.tinypic.com/w7ifwm.png

Maxx_Wellington
11-27-2011, 07:34 PM
Hey there, we all love your art to bits. your recent art is good, I don't know what you are comming down on yourself so much for. If we didn't see good potencial and talent in you, we wouldn't bother posting on your page. :cat_love::cat_love::cat_love::cat_love:

FrancysPai
11-27-2011, 07:52 PM
Gyeh, I just look back on my favourite piece and go "I'll never be able to produce that quality again."

And so far, my hand is proving me right :<

Maxx_Wellington
11-27-2011, 08:02 PM
Stress is a horrible thing. it can even enable the greats like Michaelangelo and yes, even Pichasso had his bad times. Just try to relax, remember what you enjoyed about those pieces and work slowly and calmly. Try not to expect perfection but rather know that you will create it in the end.

FrancysPai
11-27-2011, 08:10 PM
I tried going back to it and concentrating a little better (I should be sleeping)....results?

http://i41.tinypic.com/21b21jb.png

Maxx_Wellington
11-27-2011, 08:17 PM
you know the character in and out. however, your ear is a little low. An ear is between the nose and the eye.... Top of the lobe at the top of the eye socket and bottom of the lobe at th bottom of the nose. (at least mine is)

So your ear should be a little higher. But you know what? every alterating part of his facial anatomy is bang on. in other words, the shape of his nose, his lips, his eyes, hair, and whatnot.


However, if you are tired, it's always best to sleep it out. Stress plus lack of sleep is murder to the art world.


We'll be here when you get up and back to art. So don't worry and don't rush

FrancysPai
11-28-2011, 08:01 AM
*sigh*

http://i39.tinypic.com/2q1rw9e.png

Gedeon
11-29-2011, 04:27 PM
ID say more proportion practice. It seems that you make your head's quite a bit small, compared to their bodies(especially when compared to their hands. A persons face should be as big as his/her hand)

FrancysPai
11-29-2011, 05:17 PM
I'm aware of how proportions should be. This is why I'm getting so frustrated. Is because I KNOW and yet I can't get it right. Ever.

Blue_Dragon
11-30-2011, 01:35 AM
If you're having trouble executing what you're viewing, you might try tracing some of your favorite bishounen characters, and various poses. I found that when I couldn't do a certain position, I just traced it a couple (uh...a couple hundred) times and started to get the feel and memory of it in my hand. Tracing never a bad thing to help learn--all the greats way back when copied off of their masters. That's how they go so good (only now it's much easier to trace, I would suppose.)

Hope that helps. You're doing fine! Especially for just starting a couple months ago--you must have a natural talent to be so far along.

ClockHand
11-30-2011, 02:10 AM
I'm aware of how proportions should be. This is why I'm getting so frustrated. Is because I KNOW and yet I can't get it right. Ever.

You are indeed, but not about placement. As I see it you are trying to much to fit the draw in a style and you are not discussing the style with yourself.

When you draw you need to make questions to your self, ask you "Does the eyes distance is good?" or "Is the face to long?" but when you are enclosed in a style you are not making questions, you are just trying to fit what you can in it. My advice is to use guide lines, to draw-delete-draw and to ask your self what looks off, what is wrong and what do you want to achieve.

Vega's face look off because you did a very strong jaw, the eyes are to much up (kinda in a down syndrome way) and the ear is to low. This obviously shows that you are not using guide lines or you are not using them properlly.

Work with the skeletal part of the draw, work with muscles, with bones, with structure, work with placement and work in retrospective of your work.

PD: I got a pm because a kid wants you to get encouraged, I say "fuck you both". Him for asking just a stupid request and you, well I wouldn't say "fuck you too", but if you are having problem then you already should feel encouraged, there is no point in drawing if you have mastered everything. Problems are a delight.

FrancysPai
11-30-2011, 04:44 AM
Okay yup, I definitely quit.
That's the second time now someone's referred to how I draw eyes as down syndrome. I give up. Not only do I take offense to that because it's a horrible thing to compare something to, but I really don't want to hear it.
I can take critique but that is the LAST thing I want to hear.
Say they look off, could do with a bit more definition sure, but saying that is extremely upsetting.

Blue_Dragon
11-30-2011, 12:59 PM
Man, don't listen to Clock. He sometimes has trouble saying what he means appropriately. You're not doing bad, and you shouldn't quit just because of someone's comment. You've got talent, and can really push yourself to do some awesome work--just keep practicing! I've liked looking at your stuff, though I haven't really commented much.

FrancysPai
11-30-2011, 03:25 PM
Man, don't listen to Clock. He sometimes has trouble saying what he means appropriately. You're not doing bad, and you shouldn't quit just because of someone's comment. You've got talent, and can really push yourself to do some awesome work--just keep practicing! I've liked looking at your stuff, though I haven't really commented much.


I'm just very....sensitive about THAT analogy in particular.
There was seriously nothing wrong with saying "Lower your eyes a little bit, they're a tad too high." the rather offensive analogy was un-needed.
What if there were people who visited this forum who had children or family/friends with that condition? Pretty sure they'd be upset reading that. I know I was.

This is pretty much all I've mustered since this co-ordination issue settled in;


Attempting lineless colouring;
http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/333/9/3/going_going_gone____by_francyspai-d4hoz2j.png

Joosh
11-30-2011, 04:18 PM
That torso is really long x-x
It looks like the ribs end high up, then theres just a huge amount of emptiness, then the hips.
But if you look in a mirror ribs and hips kind of meet with eachother, plus your elbows meet the tip of your hips too!
Heres an example if Im kind of vague:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Skeleton2.jpg/150px-Skeleton2.jpg

Blue_Dragon
11-30-2011, 04:26 PM
Nah, I agree whole-heartedly. I had a cousin with down-syndrome who died at 3. It's very offensive, and shouldn't be used: But don't let that keep you from working--you're not the one making inappropriate analogies.

Anywho, this one is starting out well. I can't do line-less art-so I give you extra kudos for that. The chest is looking really good, as are the arms and neck. Something you might change up a bit is his behind. Although he shouldn't be as curvy as a lady, his rump should curve out a bit:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_vja2NVn0c8k/S1rRO1ckxZI/AAAAAAAAAQo/w-XtnSuGQGc/s400/Body+Sketch+(Male).jpg

This image has nudity, so I'm putting it in a spoiler:
http://images.arcadja.com/m&#37;C3%BCller_paul_jakob-two_nude_men_~300~10063_20080706_NULL_1145.jpg

You may also want to space the legs apart a bit one you draw them in. That will help to balance him a bit.

You do an excellent job of defining the abs and pecs. I'd like to see this when you have the full image :3

FrancysPai
11-30-2011, 05:40 PM
Bear in mind this was drawn last night, so my co-ordination has gone so far down the shitter it's almost un- salvageable. I can see it's long and I've gone beyond caring because I really don't see myself getting out of this.

My point is, I know where all of this is supposed to go, I was nailing it about 2 weeks ago. Now it's all gone, I can't even draw a head-shape or a torso properly anymore. I can't co-ordinate my hand, when I say "Go this far across the paper" it goes too far. I even had trouble writing something out today in work, my hand just skidded across the paper.

It's essentially that I've lost my hand-eye co-ordination, so to speak. I'm getting to a point that I'm reaching too far for things, missing hand-rails and all sorts. My other half thinks it's just stress and the fact that I'm pretty sick right now.

I'm hoping he's right -_-

Joosh
11-30-2011, 06:49 PM
Lol give yourself a break!

FrancysPai
11-30-2011, 07:10 PM
I probably should :< I keep pushing myself a little too much. I should be enjoying this, not getting stressed over it.

Celestial-Fox
12-01-2011, 01:21 AM
Heh--? I honestly don't see what you're beating yourself up about. I think these things look good. Like I said, in art, you can't be on the up-and-up all the time. But You're really amazing (and I'm not kidding) at art for how long you've been at it. Some time periods will have leaps and bounds in progress, and others will be a little more slow-going. But as long as you relax, take it easy, and don't force yourself to do draw anything that gives you negative feelings toward art, it'll all work out okay. <3 Promise.

Check out this thread (http://www.mangatutorials.com/forum/showthread.php?1200-Improvement-chart-collection) for some inspiration.

And as for the art, I think you just need to watch out for making the torsos too long. But the lineless coloring is coming along good, and what you've done in inking is staggeringly sharp (MINE IS ALWAY BLURRY, AUUUGH).

FrancysPai
12-01-2011, 05:20 AM
Heh--? I honestly don't see what you're beating yourself up about. I think these things look good. Like I said, in art, you can't be on the up-and-up all the time. But You're really amazing (and I'm not kidding) at art for how long you've been at it. Some time periods will have leaps and bounds in progress, and others will be a little more slow-going. But as long as you relax, take it easy, and don't force yourself to do draw anything that gives you negative feelings toward art, it'll all work out okay. <3 Promise.

Check out this thread (http://www.mangatutorials.com/forum/showthread.php?1200-Improvement-chart-collection) for some inspiration.

And as for the art, I think you just need to watch out for making the torsos too long. But the lineless coloring is coming along good, and what you've done in inking is staggeringly sharp (MINE IS ALWAY BLURRY, AUUUGH).

The thing that's getting me down isn't the lack of inspiration. I have a huge list of stuff I still want to draw and I know how I want to draw them too.
The problem I'm having is my hand-eye co-ordination has gone lately. I don't know if it's because I'm sick or what. My wrist is in agony everytime I start drawing/writing. It has been for the past week or so, so it's not really obeying my head :<

And the lines, I zoom in really far and use around 1-3px depending where the lines are, I usually use around 1-1.5 for eyes.

With the torsos, it's probably because for a while I kept trying to do stretched forms, so the body is going to be longer, but then it's carried over to my standard ones -_-" Need to get rid of that. I was getting it alright, or so I thought, until this whole co-ordination thing started.

Celestial-Fox
12-01-2011, 05:53 AM
I meant inspiration, not as far as concepts/ideas go, but more like inspiration for improvement and artistic development. Just click it and you'll see. :)

If your wrist problems persist, you may want to see a doctor. You may have beginning signs of carpal tunnel or arthritis.

FrancysPai
12-01-2011, 06:10 AM
I meant inspiration, not as far as concepts/ideas go, but more like inspiration for improvement and artistic development. Just click it and you'll see. :)

If your wrist problems persist, you may want to see a doctor. You may have beginning signs of carpal tunnel or arthritis.

Either of those is extremely likely. Arthritis runs in my family at the wrists and elbows and I work in a job where I'm doing the same repetitive motions with my hands (bakery lololol) over and over all day. That on top of gaming probably doesn't help let my wrists rest.

I just lost a lot of motivation this week when my wrist problems started because I tried drawing and just outright failed.

Celestial-Fox
12-01-2011, 06:27 AM
Give it a break for a little bit. It may help. And carpal tunnel is caused by vigorous, repetitive motion that wears down on your tendons. If things like that run in your family, I'd keep an eye on it. Prevention is the best policy, because being safe and healthy keeps you happier. :) That, and carpal tunnel problems create permanent nerve damage if not dealt with correctly.

FrancysPai
12-02-2011, 06:12 PM
I think I'll give it a rest a few days and come back to it. Probably just need to clear my head a little and give my wrist a rest.

In other news, I did these;

Start of my drawing, September (when I first started...gosh...has it been three months already x_x)

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/442580474.png?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1322868570&Signature=sITNHSHVZ2AUKl08QersFkgstzo&#37;3D

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/442580796.png?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1322868531&Signature=m%2BsiJHJaZ4Mf9yyFvJ65YbXMtew%3D

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/462393436.png?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1322868544&Signature=ofqVIQVcJqc4sEnZCOH2XPjU%2FNI%3D

Cloudy
12-02-2011, 10:36 PM
links are broken for me D:

Sylux
12-02-2011, 10:55 PM
Yep me too

FrancysPai
12-03-2011, 06:04 AM
That would be twitpic being lame.
One sec. It's just a comparison of the stuff I've done each month, almost like an "improvement meme."
Not much improvement tbh -_-"

http://i42.tinypic.com/4t3tjk.png

http://i44.tinypic.com/2ds379d.png

http://i39.tinypic.com/23urih1.png

darkmousysminion
12-04-2011, 01:13 AM
3 months isn't all that long. If it's any consolation, you seem to be starting from a good point. Your coloring has definitely improved, as has your anatomy. I'd say what needs to be focused on now is further anatomy study (there are still a few awkward places in the last pic) and perhaps your line work. Try adding a little variety to the thickness of your lines in area. In an anime or manga style, it can make a world's difference.

Maxx_Wellington
12-04-2011, 01:49 AM
just in the arms of your first and last pic shown in your last reply, I see great improvement. Your anatomy and body mass perportions are much, much better. And you seem to have relaxed in your art. Keep up the good work

FrancysPai
12-04-2011, 07:50 AM
I have a lot of awkward studies to get on with. I went to a friend's house yesterday and he handed me his laptop and tablet and was just like "Go on, try, you've been really down on yourself because of your co-ordination issues, so just give it a go :3"

I did and I think I'm actually starting to get it back. My wrist felt really really clunky at first, like, it wouldn't co-ordinate with the lines that I wanted (was twitching every now and then), but I think I can still remember.

Then I bought some copic markers and wellll they gotta be used to I have no excuses now.
I have two days left off work to draw and try and get a few studies down, so I'm gonna tryy -_- My main issue is faces. I'm trying to go for semi-realistic, which is why muscle structure is always so prominent for me. No matter how hard I try, I can't get semi-realistic eyes. Its driving me nuts.

FrancysPai
12-04-2011, 08:30 AM
And speaking of copics, I did these on the train home last night just with a pencil, .3 liner and some copics. It's my first time using copics because I'd bought them that day....also one of the few times I've drawn by memory with absolutely 0 references;

SPOILER. THEY'RE HORRENDOUS. Limited colour palette to work with, so I made the most of it :<

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo323/DeusExMachinaXIII/IMG_20111204_125136.jpg

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo323/DeusExMachinaXIII/IMG_20111204_125155.jpg

Maxx_Wellington
12-04-2011, 03:50 PM
I will admit that in the last picture, Vega's nose is a little too far forward, and his nostrils look behind the nose, however these are amazing! You've been training for 3 months then gotten yourself a little rusty by stopping, but for the first pic in a while, Koodos on you!!!!

Blue_Dragon
12-04-2011, 04:20 PM
o_O That's from memory!? Dude (er...dudette) I wish I could do male bodies that well from memory! And you use of copics is really good-mine always end up...blah. Too saturated in some parts, and not enough in others (though I'm trying to learn. No money to buy any right now.)

Anyway, on to critique. I like them all pretty well. I might suggest in the top left torso and legs, on the far right, I don't think you need that last line coming in above where the rump would be. The top two are okay, but I'd just leave that last one out (does that make sense?)

On your face, the who structure seems pretty sound. I think the make the eyes a little more realistic, don't make them as long, and be sure to add a bit of perspective to the left (his right) eye. Since the face is on an angle, that other eye is going to be smaller, and a little concave, as opposed to longer and narrower.

You've got the head down pretty well other than that. I wanted to say I really like the "stand alone" eye up in the right hand corner of the first image. That is really well done! I also like how you colored it. :)

FrancysPai
12-04-2011, 04:57 PM
Aye I know :< My other half said it was quite amusing watching me erase and redraw the nose like three times before mouthing "Oh fuck it, I'll do it when I redraw it."

I definitely didn't need that line there, when I draw it and my hand went inward I was like "NO NO NO NO! D8<" Stupid co-ordination, so I tried to fix it and got that :<

It was my first time using copics so I had to try and go in reverse order with my colouring, which was tough. Since in digital, I start with darkest and work lighter. Whereas with copics you have to start light, work dark. My memory was like "LSBFLSBFVKSAEFA WHATAREYOUDOING?!"

I'm seriously trying and trying to re co-ordinate my hand. With my tablet it's been the worst;

http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/338/3/2/sf_vega___flexibility_by_francyspai-d4i63qk.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-1eIdHCpTFKM/Ttu4VuZMRaI/AAAAAAAAAMU/LQyeCL14pW8/s1600/poetryinmotion.png

Cloudy
12-04-2011, 05:27 PM
haha see your making use of the body's in motion site, good good~ I say work on the feet and ankles next, they are kinda a bit thick and the feet need toes x3

FrancysPai
12-04-2011, 05:33 PM
I wasn't trying to learn feet or anything yet haha, I like doing the intricate things like that as a separate study. (Would've been too small to get all the detail in XD)
Ankles bug me, just like wrists x_x

angel_dreamer13
12-04-2011, 11:39 PM
Wooooooooooow *0*
Your anatomy is really good, I don't know what you're complaining about :)

Maxx_Wellington
12-04-2011, 11:48 PM
I also have to mention to you that your fingers are slightly spread too far. The pinky is the deciding facter for me to mention this... it looks like it's comming out of the side of his hand, rather than the end of it.

But anatomy looks pretty bang on!

FrancysPai
12-05-2011, 06:15 AM
Yeah, I really need to get around to hands and feet studies. I'm always blabbering on about how my hands and feet (and faces -_-) ruin my drawings and yet keep doing bloody anatomy D8<

My co-ordination's slowly getting there. I'm away from my laptop today so it's good ol' memory sketches using all the construction lines in the book x_x This could go badly.

Maxx_Wellington
12-07-2011, 12:01 AM
the best way I find to learn to draw hands, is to get a life drawing teacher ( I know I suck too, but I was good once, when I practiced with him until I couldn't anymore) get pictures from magazines and the internet of hands and set it up in a slide show, maybe 10-15 minutes per pic (ask your teacher, he will help with timing) then draw each hand, quitting only when you are done or the picture has swiched. you would be surprised how fast you can learn.

as for what you would need:
A life drawing teacher (that sketches)
A computer with images of hands in a slideshow
A drawing tool like charcol
A sketchpad
Time
Patience.


hope this helps

FrancysPai
12-07-2011, 03:33 PM
I wish there were life drawing classes near me :< I should ask around, someone's bound to know of one.

I'm gonna just take a crap tonne of random screencaps from all angles using pose-maniacs' hand viewer tonight and work on it on my day off tomorrow. Break down the structure and go from there. It's how I learned anatomy.

Today, I've just been working on my colouring. Need to expand my palette a lot though.

Japxican
12-07-2011, 05:23 PM
I definitely agree with working on the hands and feet. You can practice by using your own hands. You can sketch outlines and use geometric shapes before you fill in the details. I often do that, especially when I go to draw hands.

Hell_Baron
12-10-2011, 08:42 PM
Well, i'd say your art style is pretty decent.
however it's mostly just the same body and face with different hairstyles.
not that it's bad or anything, but i have the feeling it will limit your drawing abilities a bit.
have you ever considered drawing a character with a different bodytype or gender?
because after all, variety is the spice of life.
just sayin'...
other than that, the anatomy is pretty damn good.

FrancysPai
12-10-2011, 08:49 PM
however it's mostly just the same body and face with different hairstyles.



It's because it's fanart of two characters from a series...

Why is Bison so hard to make pretty at the same time as still retaining "him";

http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/344/7/d/sf__m__bison___teaser_by_francyspai-d4iqq7d.png

Sylux
12-10-2011, 10:31 PM
Francy do you use Paint Tool Sai?

Maxx_Wellington
12-10-2011, 10:50 PM
pretty nice there Leona Heidern, however the right collar shouldn't come in that much. Fabric would be uncomfortable if it had that much sabalizer or starch in it to hold it like that. Also, due to the bend, I would add a little curve in the corner of the left collar. your eye looks a little half dead. As for the nose, it seems strange that the nose isn't more than the bridge. Even Angalina Jolie has two nostril loops to the side, adding more shaddows and deffinition to the sides of the bridge. I think that will help make him look more manly.

hope that helps

FrancysPai
12-11-2011, 05:38 AM
Francy do you use Paint Tool Sai?

For line-work only. I don't get along with the colouring tools at all.

@Maxx; I ruined it when I started colouring it :< The lineart looks so much better.

nisaren
12-11-2011, 06:02 AM
Hey Francy, I just thought I'd add a quick suggestion for your coloring woes. I think it can be pretty difficult to just paint straight in color. A lot of professional artists will paint in grayscale first so they can get their values correct and then add color to it afterwards. Maybe you could try painting using grayscale or in a monochromatic color scheme at first and then move onto full color. Just a thought.

FrancysPai
12-11-2011, 11:59 AM
Ive had that flung at me more times than I can count and it seriously doesnt help me. I understand shading better in colour having tried monochrome several times.

FrancysPai
12-12-2011, 05:32 PM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Ax0jAdFZ_7o/TuZ-cLmO8eI/AAAAAAAAANw/q_yp99cLIOI/s1600/New+Canvas.png

I way prefer my lineart x_x

spidergoth
12-13-2011, 02:21 AM
I really like you're sketch, I really like the expression on his face and though I'm not a big fan of beefy guys your anatomy is really good and you seem to have a way. I find it interesting making a character like Bison sensual. ^_^

It's because it's fanart of two characters from a series...

Why is Bison so hard to make pretty at the same time as still retaining "him";

http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/344/7/d/sf__m__bison___teaser_by_francyspai-d4iqq7d.png

but to answer your question I think the no pupil (or iris) thing is kind of why, like he would look more "pretty" if he were looking at us like a "come hither thing" lol but since thats just how he is it will be difficult, I know that doesn't help you but thats just what I think.

Hell_Baron
12-13-2011, 02:28 AM
hmmm...
the head looks a bit odd.
where you trying to draw it in prespective?

FrancysPai
12-13-2011, 04:32 AM
hmmm...
the head looks a bit odd.
where you trying to draw it in prespective?

I was trying to draw him looking up and to the side. It's not a perspective that I'm familiar with (I havent been drawing all that long, like, 3 and a half months. so I havent had chance to explore everything)

As for making him sensual...he was kinda supposed to be more sad than sensual but eh *shrugs*
I had a really long conversation with a close friend who's an artist too and he helped me understand more last night than the critique that I've received like...ever.

Maxx_Wellington
12-13-2011, 10:48 AM
For line-work only. I don't get along with the colouring tools at all.

@Maxx; I ruined it when I started colouring it :< The lineart looks so much better.

Don't say that. you didn't ruin it, you just changed it... you can never ruin art. So I don't want to hear you saying that anymore ok?

As for what happened, I think I might understand what changed his nose. I think while doing the nose, you might have concentrated on the bridge a little too much, so when it came to adding the nostrils, you tried to fit it on the bridge rather than putting them beside the bridge. Try putting them to the side next time, see what happens.

FrancysPai
12-13-2011, 02:47 PM
Don't say that. you didn't ruin it, you just changed it... you can never ruin art. So I don't want to hear you saying that anymore ok?

As for what happened, I think I might understand what changed his nose. I think while doing the nose, you might have concentrated on the bridge a little too much, so when it came to adding the nostrils, you tried to fit it on the bridge rather than putting them beside the bridge. Try putting them to the side next time, see what happens.

I'll give it a shot. It's gonna be fun colouring the shirtless version.
I have loads to do. I'm trying to do 3 Final pieces a month. I so far haven't completed one -_-"

Gedeon
12-13-2011, 07:56 PM
I know this may be as severe as blasphemous to ask of you but...............would you try drawing .....anyone else then Bison and Vega......?



please don't kill me......

Maxx_Wellington
12-13-2011, 08:23 PM
Bang Bang Gedeon... jk

you know Frances Pai, Gedeon might have a point. it seems that your problems generate the same way over and over. This seems to be causing an artist's block. Drawing other people, like Leona Heidern or Akuma would really help you get past these walls and give Bison and Vega a whole new perspective, aspect, life and feel.

FrancysPai
12-13-2011, 08:32 PM
I know this may be as severe as blasphemous to ask of you but...............would you try drawing .....anyone else then Bison and Vega......?



please don't kill me......

I already do this. I just don't post them.

http://i43.tinypic.com/eug8t2.png

Gedeon
12-14-2011, 05:41 AM
Oh my bad! :D I just thought since you were having a rough time drawing Bisons face, that it would be good for you to draw something else.

FrancysPai
12-14-2011, 05:50 AM
Oh my bad! :D I just thought since you were having a rough time drawing Bisons face, that it would be good for you to draw something else.

Nah, I do draw other characters, it's just trying to perfect Bison and Vega is my goal right now....mostly Bison though.
One of my friends has been helping me out a lot over the past week. He helped me realize why I don't like my Bison sketches body-wise.
(I'm drawing him too in proportion, is that makes sense. Bison's build like a brick shit-house, especially in the chest and shoulders, but has a skinnier waist and legs. I wasn't quite getting this until he said that and I looked at my other half's optimus prime figure on my shelf and was like "So he's like Optimus, in a way?" XD)

nisaren
12-14-2011, 01:46 PM
Ive had that flung at me more times than I can count and it seriously doesnt help me. I understand shading better in colour having tried monochrome several times.

Hmm... not to offend but you've admitted that you've only been drawing for three and a half months. I can't imagine that you've been able to practice value paintings enough to really get much out of it. It stands to reason that if a lot of people are suggesting it, maybe it's worth working at it for a while. You really should work on your values at some point though, I think it'll really help improve your art and make it look less flat.

If that's too much of a bother though, you can always convert the painting to gray scale to see exactly how your values are while still painting in color. In Photoshop this is really easy to do - just create a top layer that is usually hidden and change it to "Saturation" then fill it with black. You can toggle the layer on and off to see the image in gray scale. I'm not sure if GIMP has the same option or not but I know SAI is a bit more of a pain, since you have to convert the whole painting to gray scale and then undo it to check. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

FrancysPai
12-14-2011, 01:54 PM
Hmm... not to offend but you've admitted that you've only been drawing for three and a half months. I can't imagine that you've been able to practice value paintings enough to really get much out of it. It stands to reason that if a lot of people are suggesting it, maybe it's worth working at it for a while. You really should work on your values at some point though, I think it'll really help improve your art and make it look less flat.

If that's too much of a bother though, you can always convert the painting to gray scale to see exactly how your values are while still painting in color. In Photoshop this is really easy to do - just create a top layer that is usually hidden and change it to "Saturation" then fill it with black. You can toggle the layer on and off to see the image in gray scale. I'm not sure if GIMP has the same option or not but I know SAI is a bit more of a pain, since you have to convert the whole painting to gray scale and then undo it to check. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.


What I mean, is that my eyes have a very hard time differentiating grays. I physically cannot see differences unless it's like, liteally a white, mid-grey and black. 3 tones. Anything more I really can't tell the difference.
So no, it doesn't help me.
I see better if it's in coloured shading. My eyes struggle with greys, but if it's in different tones of colour, I can deal with it. It;s why when you see some of my studies, if it's not in colour, it'll be in blue/red tones. Because I can see them.

nisaren
12-14-2011, 02:04 PM
Ah I see, sorry for the misunderstanding. That seems to be quite a restriction. If you do better with red and blue then maybe you can do more with a red or blue monochromatic painting? That could be a good substitute for gray scale value training.

FrancysPai
12-14-2011, 02:17 PM
Ah I see, sorry for the misunderstanding. That seems to be quite a restriction. If you do better with red and blue then maybe you can do more with a red or blue monochromatic painting? That could be a good substitute for gray scale value training.

But I would need to have an understanding of where the shading goes first :< I don't know how I'd be able to do that unless I could colour tint a gray photo?
Or would this not have any effect?

nisaren
12-14-2011, 05:24 PM
That would work fine, working from photos or real life is almost always good. For value studies, I would recommend using movie frames as they have been edited to have optimal value ranges. A really good method that some professionals use is to choose a photo that has the value range and colors they want in their picture and then pick their colors from it. Maybe doing something like that would help you.

If you are having trouble determining where light and dark areas fall, maybe you should try to do a few pieces where you only work with black and white. Then you have to focus on correctly placing shadows to define features instead of worrying about what shade or color goes where.

FrancysPai
12-14-2011, 05:29 PM
I believe I started doing something like that at 3am this morning hahaha.

Something like this?

http://twitpic.com/7sz6rd

nisaren
12-14-2011, 05:39 PM
Yep, pretty much exactly like that. If you wanted, you could simplify it even more to only using white and black (or you can substitute any other color that you like for black). But you're definitely on the right track with what you're doing in that picture.

FrancysPai
12-14-2011, 05:50 PM
Yep, pretty much exactly like that. If you wanted, you could simplify it even more to only using white and black (or you can substitute any other color that you like for black). But you're definitely on the right track with what you're doing in that picture.

I'm trying to keep going with that. That image up there is definitely gonna be more cel-shade than my current one.

It went from like...this, to which my friend reminded me that his pecs are looking more like bewbs because Male pecs go out whereas female boobs curve in;
http://i40.tinypic.com/23ib2pz.jpg

To this;
http://i42.tinypic.com/14c4col.jpg


To this (Ignore the face, I havent started it yet...haven't finished the body either but MEEEEHHH! I'M GETTING THERE D8<)
http://i42.tinypic.com/4twymp.png

FrancysPai
12-15-2011, 06:31 AM
Speaks for itself'

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/349/f/0/sf_bison__improvement_meme___sorta__by_francyspai-d4j5myn.png

FrancysPai
12-15-2011, 06:40 PM
Excuse the troll face.

http://i42.tinypic.com/s0vk2h.png

Maxx_Wellington
12-15-2011, 07:24 PM
yay you drew a penis!!!! sorry but most people I've seen try to avoid that, so I am kinda happy to see a guy who's not "missing his manly"....

Anyways, your wrists seem too big. that part of the arm (I can never recall if it's called the forarm or not) is designed like a deformed teardrop. The point of the teardrop is in the hand and the round butt end is at the elbow. That's the base shape I use to start that part of the arm. However how he is standing, the deformed part would be along the outer "wall" (the side of the arm furthest away to the body) since that's where the bone would be. This would be flatter as there isn't much, if any, muscle over the bone.

Also, your arms are making your hands way too big. A hand (I believe Gedeon told me this but sorry if I got the wrong guy, just want to give proper koodos) should be the size of your head.

Thirdly, I dunno how he was made in SF since I honestly don't remember him (although Akuma is my number one guy followed by Ryu) but males tend to have different hand orientations than females. Let's see if I can explain. A girl's hands naturally sit like you made Bison's hands, as if he was holding an attachee case. However, males tend to have the thumb pulled more towards the body, as if he was holding a motorcycle handle... like this http://www.expertboxing.com/wp-content/uploads/standing-straight-boxing-stance.jpg rather than http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=woman+standing+straight&um=1&hl=en&biw=1024&bih=506&tbm=isch&tbnid=pVa9lwjFBd0U2M:&imgrefurl=http://www.asiaphotopro.com/stock-photo/asian-women-with-headset&docid=MZS0Bm9hhlRtpM&imgurl=http://p1.asiaphotopro.com/1/999999/asian-women-with-headset2875.jpg&w=253&h=380&ei=mo7qTrmoFOfY0QG6m_ytCQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=758&vpy=258&dur=193&hovh=171&hovw=114&tx=87&ty=117&sig=112807584472686865372&page=6&tbnh=125&tbnw=85&start=64&ndsp=13&ved=1t:429,r:11,s:64 (I know she looks nervous, but it's hard to find a common woman naturally standing straight. When we swing our arms, we maintain that angle, making men seem like we backhand the air.

Koodos on the dick though, you're really good at that, however I think the balls could be a tad looser (add a U rinckle behind the did, just popping out on both sides)

hope that all helps

FrancysPai
12-15-2011, 07:30 PM
ylots of stuff

I was oddly going off my own hands as far as pose goes. As for the hands, I've been using Hide as a reference and she does pretty much the same thing -_- larger than head hands. for some reason, I feel it suits him. He's not really meant to look all that human.
I've noticed the wrist problem, gonna fix it after work.

I'll try and work on it, hands are still a huge problem for me.

I've avoided drawing it for a while since it gets my stuff either reported or people complaining about spoiler tags.

Bacon_Barbarian
12-15-2011, 08:38 PM
I knew I would regret coming in this thread. Good art. Good coloring. See if you can find a life drawing class, that's fun. Use spoilers. *head-desks*

Cloudy
12-15-2011, 11:06 PM
She already used the NSFW in her topic >_> Chillax

FrancysPai
12-16-2011, 04:42 AM
I knew I would regret coming in this thread. Good art. Good coloring. See if you can find a life drawing class, that's fun. Use spoilers. *head-desks*

Read the thread title *head-desks*

And I've already said a billion times that those classes are unavailable to me due to both there being none close and I work until late.

Cloudy
12-16-2011, 06:08 AM
You don't need a class to improve, just copy a whole stack of ref pics, classes are helpful but when you cant get there then that's too bad :)

Maxx_Wellington
12-16-2011, 02:41 PM
I think I already mentionned how I create a home class on your thread, if not I will do so... however the one thing that I find interesting is that when you are in a life class you are so consentrated on your drawing that a well hung naked man with a chizzled body and a gorgeous face will be there and you might only notice at the beginning or at the end, but as you draw, he becomes a figure.... I know cause I had a gorgeous woman in there once...

Bacon_Barbarian
12-16-2011, 03:34 PM
NSFW isn't visible if you just click on the thread from the main page. *grumbles about the human form being nasty*

FrancysPai
12-16-2011, 06:02 PM
NSFW isn't visible if you just click on the thread from the main page. *grumbles about the human form being nasty*

You're in the wrong field of hobby if THAT is your perspective on the human body.

Bacon_Barbarian
12-16-2011, 06:03 PM
Oh, I know. I have no intentions of ever doing anything serious, so it doesn't matter. :P

Anyway, keep up the good work.

Cloudy
12-18-2011, 07:13 AM
^ what a horrible attitude towards art.

anyway

Keep up the good work fransy

FrancysPai
12-20-2011, 04:42 PM
I love the halftone pattern tool XD

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2011/354/b/e/sf_m__bison_by_francyspai-d4jortt.png

Gedeon
12-20-2011, 05:58 PM
Hands & arms too big, well the arms are ok but the wrists are not there. And some of the muscles (left from the jewels) look weird. I think the line's are too hard cut of.

FrancysPai
12-20-2011, 07:15 PM
Hands & arms too big, well the arms are ok but the wrists are not there. And some of the muscles (left from the jewels) look weird. I think the line's are too hard cut of.

I don't draw Bison's hands in human proportion since I don't see him as human.

The legs, I actually used a reference image and their muscles were that cut XD You have to remember that Bison is uber uber buff.
I know the wrist problem and it's something I'm still struggling to fix. It's driving me mad.
The right arm needs to be longer too.

FrancysPai
12-25-2011, 09:25 PM
Bleeeehehehehe.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-YsVTq0ZT7wk/TvZ06gqwFyI/AAAAAAAAAQA/v3kZ53ZqbUk/s1600/month+in+rewew.png

SuperKasey
12-28-2011, 02:42 AM
Are you actually looking at pictures of nude men when you draw? It's just that everything looks a bit off. Try loosening up when you draw and block out the form in very quick and simple terms before trying to cram in all the detail. It will help with correct muscle placement. Like Cloudy said you do not need a figure drawing class. I've never actually had a formal one aside from my art teacher telling me to draw the person sitting next to me. Most of the learning you do will be entirely on your own contrary to popular belief. Collect reference pictures as you surf the web and do quick sketches of them every now and again.

More specifically it looks like you could really use some time studying hands and feet. It seems to me that you just rush through them and toss detail to the wind in favor of focusing on other parts of the body.

Even if you do not see a particular character as human that doesn't mean you can break the laws of basic anatomy. Sure proportions can be pushed and rules can be bent but even when drawing completely alien creatures it is important to remember how complex organic creatures function. If your character is at least based on the human form you should get the human form right before trying to break it's rules in a convincing manner.

I feel your musculature is being way way way over defined and over rendered. Careful with those shadows.

I'm probably the only person brave enough to comment on this but here goes.
The penis isn't just slapped on there. It is rooted in the pelvis and the base will line up with the center of the abdominal muscles. His is very out of place. And then the shaft actually continues past the front of the body underneath the pelvis so it won't just hang straight down like that even when flaccid. Get some ref pics and you'll see what I mean.

FrancysPai
12-28-2011, 03:38 PM
I really don't see the problem with drawing Bison outside of human proportion when official artwork of him is like this;
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/117273-113985-m-bison_super.jpg

I don't look at reference pictures 80&#37; of the time until I'm done. Because I can compare them and see where I'm going wrong.
I'm not going to always have references on hand when I draw, so I'm not relying on them as much as I evidently should.

I'm drawing for myself. I'm not aiming to get to the stage of commissions or being professional, freelance, whatever.
All my goal in the end is, is to be able to draw my doujinshi that I've had planned since I started fanfiction.

And I'm aware of the penis problem. A friend went over it with me afterwards. I've fixed it in the sketch form but not in the digital art. Because I'd rather just keep going and not dwelling and just getting it right next time.

I don't even rush hands and feet, I just have a very difficult time understanding their structure.
I'm trying. I'm fricken trying.
I have only been drawing for 4 months so give me a break.

SuperKasey
12-28-2011, 07:00 PM
Forgive me. I was simply giving standard critique.

NWAP
12-28-2011, 07:12 PM
I really don't see the problem with drawing Bison outside of human proportion when official artwork of him is like this;
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/117273-113985-m-bison_super.jpg


to be honest. that pic is pretty proportional...its just highly exaggerated. Once everything is in proper anatomical place, THEN you can have huge hands and muscles and still make it believable to your viewers. But like Kasey said, You need to know how to draw the way it REALLY looks, before you can believably exaggerate it.


I'm drawing for myself. I'm not aiming to get to the stage of commissions or being professional, freelance, whatever.
All my goal in the end is, is to be able to draw my doujinshi that I've had planned since I started fanfiction.

In that case... i don't see why you are here, you could draw a doujinshi right now :/ . But I think you are still trying to reach some sort of standard before you start right? And If its a personal standard we will never know what it is you are trying to accomplish, so most people are going to continue to say whatever they think the problem is. Remember that we are only trying to help ;D

FrancysPai
12-28-2011, 07:47 PM
It felt more like an insult to be told that I evidently know nothing about anatomy.
Can you blame me for getting irked by that when I've been trying? I'm sorry that within four months I'm not some anatomy god like half of the people here.
It's not like I'm drawing stick figures and going "Look at how proportionate I am!"

But then of course, if you're not drawing because you want it as a profession, then I evidently have no business here.

So whatever. I'll leave you guys to it since obviously a newbie like me isn't exactly welcome among the likes of people who know what they're doing already.

NWAP
12-28-2011, 08:13 PM
It felt more like an insult to be told that I evidently know nothing about anatomy.
Can you blame me for getting irked by that when I've been trying? I'm sorry that within four months I'm not some anatomy god like half of the people here.
It's not like I'm drawing stick figures and going "Look at how proportionate I am!"

But then of course, if you're not drawing because you want it as a profession, then I evidently have no business here.

So whatever. I'll leave you guys to it since obviously a newbie like me isn't exactly welcome among the likes of people who know what they're doing already.

I do understand! but you missed my point. we want nothing more than for you to be here and to see your art. but this is the Crit Corner... people are going to crit your art in a way THEY feel is going to make you a better artist. Sometimes people can be a little harsh when it comes to crits, maybe they don't chose the best words to convey their meaning (>-> very often actually)... what im saying is you kinda have to expect it. MOST people here have good intentions. It has nothing to do with becoming pro. what you want to do with the knowledge you obtain here is up to you, we just want to get you to where you want to be. Please don't let this stumble you.

Cloudy
12-28-2011, 09:08 PM
Woah woah woahhh no one is insulting anyone, people are simply pointing things out.

Francy don't take things people say as a personal attack because it's far from it, instead read what people are telling you, try and take it on board, they are trying to help you improve as an artist. and if you disagree with what it is then fine.

No one expects you to be pro in 4 months we have all been there and of course you are welcome here, but please remember this is the critique section...sometimes people say things you do not want to hear.

You post your art in here to improve and people will Judge it.

SuperKasey
12-28-2011, 10:41 PM
Look, the last thing I was out to do was insult you or cause drama. That was the opposite of my intentions. If I sounded like I was attacking you then I am truly sorry and should you decide to stay I will be far more cautious with my word choice in later critiques. Again I'm sorry for upsetting you.
But as Nwap said, if you do not wan't to hear the critique and are only out to create a doujinshi for yourself then the critique corner is not for you. Might I suggest just jumping into your manga and posting it in the Manga Works thread? I'm sure you'll get more of the type of feedback you seem to be looking for there.

toast
12-29-2011, 08:17 PM
Explain to me, what is the point of asking for criticism when you try to defend every fault someone finds in your art?

MysticPerl
12-30-2011, 08:58 AM
Yeah this is a bit weird. You're in the crit corner so you need to accept critics. I read the critics you got and I would kill for so many people to help me with my art. I'm a beginner too. I haven't even been drawing steadily for 4 months, so obviously I'm less good than you. I'm trying to learn a lot of basic things and having people point out my mistakes to me would help me immensely. You are very lucky, remember that!
And IMO not having reference pictures is a bad idea. I had reference pictures when I did my doodles, and thank God I used them because otherwise my drawings would have been worse. You can ignore what I say because I'm just a humble beginner but you know people are only trying to help you.

Gedeon
12-31-2011, 09:47 PM
ok people chill. There has been a little misunderstanding, no biggie right. As for anatomy, i agree with NWAP. Try and learn to draw a human body with normal proportions, not because we tell you that you "MUST" first learn the "RIGHT" way to draw human bodies ( the words with " are supposed to be sarcastic, also there is no right way to draw especially when you do it for yourself) try and learn it cuz we believe it will help you and make it easier for you to draw Bisons over-exaggerated-masculine body :D So no harm done right Francy?

Hell_Baron
01-02-2012, 07:01 AM
ok people chill. There has been a little misunderstanding, no biggie right. As for anatomy, i agree with NWAP. Try and learn to draw a human body with normal proportions, not because we tell you that you "MUST" first learn the "RIGHT" way to draw human bodies ( the words with " are supposed to be sarcastic, also there is no right way to draw especially when you do it for yourself) try and learn it cuz we believe it will help you and make it easier for you to draw Bisons over-exaggerated-masculine body :D So no harm done right Francy?

I'm pretty sure i mentioned something like this a little earlier in this thread, so i'll say it again.
try to draw characters with different bodytypes and genders. slim, chubby, buff, etc.
if you keep drawing these two characters constantly, you'll never improve.
that would be a damn shame, because i can see you have potential.
look, i know how you feel, i've been like this too. thinking you're the shit and seeing critique as a personal attack on you and your art.
seriously, stop that. we're trying to help by pointing out what you did wrong so you can work on that and improve.