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Fenn
08-03-2011, 09:38 AM
The topic to discuss all things science. The purpose of this thread is to:

- Primarily: Discuss, post information about, and (when applicable) debate recent scientific endeavors, research, and developments.
- Post scientific or science related questions and work together with other members to answer them.
- Speculate and argue longstanding scientific problems and challenges.


To get the thread started, I pose this question as a possible "ice breaker": What is the future of theoretical physics? Have we reached the near limits of human understanding of natures laws and workings, or are there still new breakthroughs to be made?

ram
08-03-2011, 09:57 AM
hmmm... i don't really know. as i see it there might be, or there might be not.
probably all that's left is theories to be proven.

Rio
08-03-2011, 10:31 AM
I don't think we're nearing the limit. There's still more that can be discovered. All we need is the person or persons who will make that discovery and implement it.

Hamachi
08-03-2011, 10:54 AM
Ooh, we're nowhere near the limit. Especially with super-small things. When theoretical physics overlaps with the realm of molec & cell biology (technically chemistry, even), we're basically cavemen dumping materials into the system and wondering what will happen.

CypressDahlia
08-03-2011, 11:03 AM
I can see more technology coming, but I don't see it being very applicable.

Slurpee
08-03-2011, 01:24 PM
Physics can't be distorted right? Or is that only the Laws of Physics?

GunZet
08-03-2011, 01:35 PM
Whenever I think about space, I think about how it's constantly expanding. But at what pace? What's beyond the expansion? What if we really are the only intelligent life in this galaxy, there's a chance that could be true. Oh also, gravity has no effect on me *lunges off a building*

Delphinus
08-03-2011, 07:06 PM
Physics can't be distorted right? Or is that only the Laws of Physics?

That depends.

Quantum mechanics lets everything happen. If you could manipulate sub-atomic matter in certain ways you could (in theory) do pretty much anything. We're far, far, far away from having anything like that sort of level of technology, though. Once we had that sort of thing we would pretty much be God.


What if we really are the only intelligent life in this galaxy

It's possible. But the fact that humans exist makes it seem likely that it's possible for other intelligent life out there somewhere in the universe, maybe even if it doesn't exist in this galaxy.

ram
08-03-2011, 07:16 PM
actually some people already accepted the theories as facts, and i believe there's already a theory for every single thing.
that's why i said were maybe nearing the limit or maybe were not.

Delphinus
08-03-2011, 07:50 PM
Theories are just frameworks to fit facts into. Of course there are loads of them. Doesn't mean problems won't be discovered with these theories in future.

ram
08-03-2011, 07:58 PM
well i'm not one of those people who accepted theories as facts anyway, actually i'm annoyed why people sometimes answer my question with theories

ClockHand
08-03-2011, 08:42 PM
A theory is only accepted until is disproved. Also a Theory is never used to reach a true solution to a problem, only a less-fake solution (Popper).

I hate this sort of threads because are to wide to discuss, do you want to discuss quantum theory, phenomenology, epistemology, Kant, what?! If you want to discuss if we are at the near end of discovering you are not pretty smart.

Science is still in diapers, we still don't know so many things that are in front of us, we still fight each others to understand things and even more with quatum theory and everything that goes with dark holes, dimensions and time, science is re-thinking everything that people though they knew.

PS: 200 years ago no one would discuss Time, still a lot of people would use it as a variable for experiments, without knowing how complex is the variable. And now the variable has become the object of study. And not just that, Quantum Theory also put dimensions as a object of study, while 200 years ago where variable for study. We are re-evaluating everything we though we knew, and I bet that in 400 years more we are gonna do it again.

Delphinus
08-03-2011, 08:43 PM
Phenomenology and epistemology and Kant aren't science. They have ramifications on science but they're philosophy.

ClockHand
08-03-2011, 08:47 PM
It's philosophy of Science and It's part of what science is. The same as Quantum theory is part of what science is.

Delphinus
08-03-2011, 09:02 PM
I assume we're talking about scientific discoveries etc. not the scientific method.

ClockHand
08-03-2011, 09:09 PM
Well, that's why I hate this kind of threads, are to wide to discuss. Also if we talk about scientific discovery, we first need to understand what and how are we discovering (kinda weird that you call phenomenology and epistemology a method, when they are problems that bring theories, the theories then become methods and so in techniques. And the theory already have a pretty wide amount of problems and different many other theories).

Fenn
08-03-2011, 09:26 PM
A theory is only accepted until is disproved. Also a Theory is never used to reach a true solution to a problem, only a less-fake solution (Popper).

I hate this sort of threads because are to wide to discuss, do you want to discuss quantum theory, phenomenology, epistemology, Kant, what?! If you want to discuss if we are at the near end of discovering you are not pretty smart.

Science is still in diapers, we still don't know so many things that are in front of us, we still fight each others to understand things and even more with quatum theory and everything that goes with dark holes, dimensions and time, science is re-thinking everything that people though they knew.

PS: 200 years ago no one would discuss Time, still a lot of people would use it as a variable for experiments, without knowing how complex is the variable. And now the variable has become the object of study. And not just that, Quantum Theory also put dimensions as a object of study, while 200 years ago where variable for study. We are re-evaluating everything we though we knew, and I bet that in 400 years more we are gonna do it again.

That's a reasonable complaint Clock. The hope was that people would post or bring up certain topics, which would then be discussed. Since no one has done that yet, I'll start:

TOPIC: Dark Matter.

My big question is why are we spending millions of dollars trying to prove or disprove Dark Matter when I can see very little practical applications of it at all. I get the whole "For the sake of science and curiosity" argument, but dark matter is a far different study and investment from, say, space travel, which was so unknown when it began that there may have been, and arguably have been, practical benefits.

GunZet
08-03-2011, 09:31 PM
My big question is why are we spending millions of dollars trying to prove or disprove Dark Matter when I can see very little practical applications of it at all.

You're so wrong bro.
http://electrorash.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/46ff126b3093a90cc280c35e3f9b15f4.jpg

ClockHand
08-03-2011, 09:34 PM
TOPIC: Dark Matter.

My big question is why are we spending millions of dollars trying to prove or disprove Dark Matter when I can see very little practical applications of it at all. I get the whole "For the sake of science and curiosity" argument, but dark matter is a far different study and investment from, say, space travel, which was so unknown when it began that there may have been, and arguably have been, practical benefits.

Dark Matter is extremely important, it tell us that the space is not empty at all, and that there is mater in the space. As we know little or better to say nothing about it, we need to study, specially because you never know what discoveries you can do.

Harvester_Of_Sorrow
08-03-2011, 10:39 PM
well i'm not one of those people who accepted theories as facts anyway, actually i'm annoyed why people sometimes answer my question with theories

Why do I get the feeling that you don't know what a scientific theory actually is?

Hamachi
08-03-2011, 11:52 PM
Everything's a theory. You may think you're processing things, but there's really no way of proving you are. Hence, since belief is needed for anything, you cannot prove through your five senses or mine that I'm not a pineapple. In my new station as a pineapple, I now dub all of you honorary teakettles.

To make this relevant to the topic, anyone hear updates about that black hole machine made years ago?

I'm being scientifically dense right here on purpose. For the fun of it, you know.

ram
08-04-2011, 02:29 AM
Why do I get the feeling that you don't know what a scientific theory actually is?

theories are just theories until it's proven as fact is it not? yes all discovery starts with theories. but for people to already accept them as fact is no different from religions. based on the fact that they put faith on something that is not yet proven.

edit: i might not stay in this thread too long for debate. i really don't like debating in forums cause it's just for cowards who can ask google for help. It's far too different in real life debates face to face.

Egoslip
08-04-2011, 03:08 AM
Hmmm.. I've always been fascinated by quantum physics/mechanics.. space, time, consciousness.. how it all fits together.. is this all just one big net of structured patterns, or is it all chaos?.. hmmm wouldn't it be nice if parallel universes did in fact exist past our collective conscious theories? Or is all this reality a ruse.. ultimately we're locked inside our head.. literally.. your senses all travel through nerve endings and what have you to your brain with electrical pulses.. where all the information is assembled.. for all i know.. I could be just a brain in a jar with plugs and wires connected to it that give it electrical information telling my brain different functions.. fooling all senses..

Anyway.. Dark matter huh? What about anti-matter? I heard one of the two were caught and held for like 16 minutes to be studied.. I think it was anti-matter.. yes definitely anti-matter.. Anyway.. Dark matter makes sense to me.. Anti-Matter is what kind of freaks me out..

So yeah.. Science is fun and thought provoking.. especially since it seems our sci-fi is becoming "sci-fact" as quoted by one of my favorite physicists :D

ram
08-04-2011, 09:02 AM
lol that sounds just like matrix.

ClockHand
08-04-2011, 10:35 AM
theories are just theories until it's proven as fact is it not? yes all discovery starts with theories. but for people to already accept them as fact is no different from religions. based on the fact that they put faith on something that is not yet proven.


Wow, are you for real? No, theory is not like religion (even so some people use them as the same), because with religion you want everything to fit the ideas, in theory if it doesn't fit the theory change or is discarded. Again, with this comment, it's obviously you don't know what is science.


Hmmm.. I've always been fascinated by quantum physics/mechanics.. space, time, consciousness.. how it all fits together.. is this all just one big net of structured patterns, or is it all chaos?..

Chaos theory already say there is a patter, but we are unable to see it, and that the patter of structure has a tendency to chaos or destruction by a lost of energy.

Gedeon
08-04-2011, 10:38 AM
The most funny thing about sience is htat, just as you guys said, almost everything is a theory! Almost all of the solutions that scientist come up with are not confirmed( Bozons particle, The way molecules react to each other, anti-matter, energy....). They already came up with an idea that explains how atoms stick together, with the help of the bozons particle, and they have already accepted it as a fact.......but no one has ever seen it. So basiclly they know a lot about atoms and how they react IF their theory is correct, if not.....its back to square one. And that's why science fascinates me! The great Greek minds have already started thinking about molecules and how they bind an combine to make......well everything. And they didn't even have the ability to see micro-organizams, and that also means no atomic excelators! So thats all. :D

ram
08-04-2011, 10:59 AM
I'm just saying that people put too much faith in theories,

Sorry for comparing science and religion.
and yes i know that religions are just nothing but ideas and just some stupid superstition that someone come up with while sticking his finger on his nose while coming up with an idea that "THERE IS GOD!"(well that's what you guys would say considering your so obsessed with insulting religions) and theories are fits of facts into consideration.

I'm just saying that people now a days say they know what is going on in black holes and know what is going on in every part of that world while they hear theories of people.
and they come up that there is no mystery in the world.

Hamachi
08-04-2011, 11:09 AM
You'll all be sorry for doubting me when our race ascends to the next level of fruity existence!
(Agnostics, atheists or theists, take that statement as you will)

What's sad about science and specifically the Hadron collider is that someone in India hanged himself believing a black hole would be formed from subatomic particles smacking each other at superspeed. Ah, the collateral damages of progress.

GunZet
08-04-2011, 02:39 PM
But if we do ascend somehow. That means magic is REAL. And all this time, I probably really could shoot fire out my hands, but just didn't know how to unlock the potential O_O.

Kodos
08-04-2011, 02:53 PM
I'm just saying that people put too much faith in theories,

Sorry for comparing science and religion.
and yes i know that religions are just nothing but ideas and just some stupid superstition that someone come up with while sticking his finger on his nose while coming up with an idea that "THERE IS GOD!"(well that's what you guys would say considering your so obsessed with insulting religions) and theories are fits of facts into consideration.

I'm just saying that people now a days say they know what is going on in black holes and know what is going on in every part of that world while they hear theories of people.
and they come up that there is no mystery in the world.
Find me a single scientist who has ever claimed to have reliable knowledge of what goes on beyond the event horizon of a black hole. Because I am aware of none. Hell, I'd dare say that the answer to "what goes on inside a black hole?" is probably one of the only two questions in all of existence that are fundamentally unanswerable.

Anyway. This thread reminds me - is there any interest in another astronomy/astrophysics thread? I made one last year, but people didn't seem to care and it died. If people want one, I'll get to work making one next week when I'm back home in NY and have access to my books and shit so I can cross-check my memory and make sure that I'm not forgetting or misremembering anything.

EDIT:

The most funny thing about sience is htat, just as you guys said, almost everything is a theory! Almost all of the solutions that scientist come up with are not confirmed( Bozons particle,
There is no "boson" particle. Bosons are a type of particle that act as carriers for the fundamental forces of the universe. There are several bosons involved in the cohesion of atoms since the strong and weak nuclear forces as well as electromagnetism are all active forces inside of an atom.


The way molecules react to each other, anti-matter, energy....).
Energy is just matter. E=MC^2.


They already came up with an idea that explains how atoms stick together, with the help of the bozons particle, and they have already accepted it as a fact.......but no one has ever seen it.
Are you talking about the Higgs Boson? That has to do with gravity and/or mass (it's complicated) and gravity is far too weak a force to have anything to do with individual atoms. The only thing the Higgs Boson would have to do with atoms is it's role in mass. The existence or lack thereof of the Higgs Boson is meaningless for our theories of atoms and nuclear physics.
As for the actual bosons involved, they have all, IIRC, been observed in labs. So wrong.

Just wanted to clear up some misconceptions.

ram
08-04-2011, 03:00 PM
i want teleportation ability

Kodos
08-04-2011, 03:01 PM
You want (almost certainly) impossible things.

Edited for accuracy.

ram
08-04-2011, 03:09 PM
actually that was reply to gunzet and hamachi.. i was shocked at your post come out when i click post quick reply.


two questions in all of existence that are fundamentally unanswerable.



so what is the other one?

Kodos
08-04-2011, 03:31 PM
Possibly what went on before the big bang. Although I'd argue that it might one day be able to simulate the big bang with a sufficiently powerful computer or in some hideously far flung future. Both are absurdly unrealistic but still hint that such knowledge may be fundamentally knowable, even if in practical terms they are unknowable.

I'd argue that it's very likely that - barring radical changes in our understanding of black holes and/or gravity and/or lightspeed limitations - what goes on beyond the event horizon is fundamentally unknowable and will always be so. Any 'theories' would be nothing more than largely baseless conjecture.

Harvester_Of_Sorrow
08-04-2011, 07:42 PM
theories are just theories until it's proven as fact is it not? yes all discovery starts with theories. but for people to already accept them as fact is no different from religions. based on the fact that they put faith on something that is not yet proven.

edit: i might not stay in this thread too long for debate. i really don't like debating in forums cause it's just for cowards who can ask google for help. It's far too different in real life debates face to face.

Erm, no. A scientific theory is an assortment of facts that are testable and repeatable that arrive at a conclusion that enables predictions. Its strange why religious folk bad mouth theories because they aren't 'facts' all the while being ignorant of the fact that a theory is made up of facts. Dear oh dear. Also, I suspect the reason you don't wanna debate on a forum is because you can not support you're position, with or without google. And, no, debating in real life isn't any different at all, unless you need google to help you.

toast
08-04-2011, 08:49 PM
I was actually watching the Colbert report, and he had a theoretical physicist as a guest (Brian Greene, aka smartypants), and Colbert asked something like, "so if everything you worked on, for years and years, in which tons and tons of tests were ran that lead to the same conclusion every time, was debunked, you would drop everything?" and the dude was like "yeah". Of course, automatically I thought about if a priest was asked this and knew their answer would be completely different (read: no). But this isn't the psalm thread soo

Kodos
08-04-2011, 09:38 PM
I have a book on string theory by Greene. He's pretty good.

Hamachi
08-04-2011, 11:05 PM
Wonder what the spine title says.
String Theory by G.? rofl

Gedeon
08-05-2011, 01:17 AM
First of all, thanks. Second, sorry for being lazy and not reading the book(watch a video) to jog my memory. =w=' it is the Higgs Boson. And (as I've heard, from nat geos show Trough the wormhole with Morgan Freeman) the Higgs boson is the particle that keeps all the other particles together. The Higgs field is everywhere, at every point of the space. So there is no real empty space. And as the titty obsessed braniac( yeah kodos im talking about you >: D) said it does have something to do with mass, but its more unique that they are thinking that The Higgs field is in the whole of the universe all the time! The higgs boson is the field particle of the higgs field, they react with everything, except the graviton, foton, and i rly can't remember the third one. And the only way thy are connected with mass is that they will react more intensively with particles that have a higher mass. It doesn't have a role in mass, but its activity with the other particles is measured in comparison to the mass of the particle. And on top of all that.............all of those theories.....all of those solutions ....go down the drain if they somehow conclude that that there is no Higgs bosson ....=w=......imagine it.........

Slurpee
08-05-2011, 01:01 PM
There was a discussion thing with Steven Hawking yesterday on the science channel? anyone watch it?

Fenn
08-06-2011, 04:29 PM
Sorry for my brief absence. I'm glad to see it's still alive.

Kodos you're welcome to use this thread as an astrophysics thread. I'm totally down for that, I'd participate.

And Slurpee unfortunately I did not know about that. What was it about?

ram
08-06-2011, 08:38 PM
Erm, no. A scientific theory is an assortment of facts that are testable and repeatable that arrive at a conclusion that enables predictions. Its strange why religious folk bad mouth theories because they aren't 'facts' all the while being ignorant of the fact that a theory is made up of facts. Dear oh dear. Also, I suspect the reason you don't wanna debate on a forum is because you can not support you're position, with or without google. And, no, debating in real life isn't any different at all, unless you need google to help you.

i might have over reacted on that comment before because of my anger on some certain subject so i apologize. I don't really mean all theories but there are ridiculous theories out there. it's just that.

but i have to react on the debate part. i just pointed out google as an example.
you see you can't really know if i am serious of what i'm talking about cause were all just talking monitor.

and i might be laughing right now and you won't really know, you can't see my reaction and i can't see yours,
i'm saying that there are too many advantages in debating in forum and google is just one part of it.
and the biggest advantage is "it's internet".

Harvester_Of_Sorrow
08-06-2011, 09:26 PM
No need to apologise. But I still don't think you understand what a scientific theory is. If you class any scientific theory as ridiculous then you are calling all the mountains of supporting evidence and predictive ability of that theory ridiculious also. Please would you give me an example of a ridiculous theory?

And, yes, I do see your point about an internet debate being just talking monitors, however I dont see why that should deter you from having a debate with someone online. If we were debating evolution, for example, and all of you're arguments came from bogus sites who have a vested interest in spreading falsehoods about evolution, then I would easily be able to spot that and call it accordingly. Just because you have the internet as a tool, does not mean you will win a debate. Mostly because your oppenant also has the internet as a tool, so its even. Plus we can all tell when people are just typing 'evolution' into wikipedia and then passing off that knowledge as their own.

ram
08-07-2011, 05:30 AM
I just don't enjoy debate in forum. that's all there is to it guess, so i take back what i said about forum debaters being coward and i take back what i said about theories. i guess your right about me just can't support my position in debating so I apologize.

I don't really know why you put up with me, your just making a fool of your self cause your talking to someone who don't know what he's saying.

Harvester_Of_Sorrow
08-07-2011, 08:23 PM
Wow, now I feel like a bully...

Gedeon
08-09-2011, 12:53 PM
People i just want to ask what do you know of black holes..?

Delphinus
08-09-2011, 01:24 PM
They're big, they go sucky sucky, and when stars go sucky sucky because they're too fat they become big sucky holes themselves.

Kodos
08-09-2011, 06:04 PM
They're not necessarily big, but they are necessarily massive. Important distinction.

Fenn
08-09-2011, 07:35 PM
They're not necessarily big, but they are necessarily massive. Important distinction.

So they're like my chatterbox threads?

I'm not even sure HOW certain we are black holes exist. I know it's backed by substantial theoretical evidence and indirect observation, but how confident are astrophysicists?

Sylux
08-09-2011, 08:19 PM
Pretty much certain from what I've gathered. Just my layman's observation, though.

Kodos
08-10-2011, 12:17 AM
I'm pretty sure it's consensus by now that they exist.

Fenn
08-10-2011, 02:05 PM
How about neuroscience? I always love reading these articles. I just read one about scientists taking cells from schitzophrenics (spelling?), converting them into stem cells, and then converting them into neurons. They used this to monitor the brain functions OUTSIDE of the human. Epic.

Gedeon
08-10-2011, 02:32 PM
How about neuroscience? I always love reading these articles. I just read one about scientists taking cells from schitzophrenics (spelling?), converting them into stem cells, and then converting them into neurons. They used this to monitor the brain functions OUTSIDE of the human. Epic.

Holy shit they can do that!? OAO Awesome!!! but how many neurons did they watch!? Or did they make just that one.

Sylux
08-11-2011, 11:24 AM
Uh regardless of quantity, that's some serious quality progress.

Fenn
08-12-2011, 11:27 AM
Holy shit they can do that!? OAO Awesome!!! but how many neurons did they watch!? Or did they make just that one.

They "made" neurons from both healthy and schitzophrenic patients to compare them, so multiple.

Gedeon
08-12-2011, 05:05 PM
Uh regardless of quantity, that's some serious quality progress.

True, but the first thing i thought of when i read what Fenn said is that they could make a dead brain!!! =w= silly i know.
But it would resolve the zombie starving problems :D

Kodos
08-12-2011, 08:48 PM
How about neuroscience? I always love reading these articles. I just read one about scientists taking cells from schitzophrenics (spelling?), converting them into stem cells, and then converting them into neurons. They used this to monitor the brain functions OUTSIDE of the human. Epic.
Article plz.

ram
08-13-2011, 07:40 AM
rolf fenn i just noticed that your location is space-time.

Fenn
08-13-2011, 03:42 PM
Article plz.

I wasn't sure if I would be able to find it...

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=mental-illness-in-a-dish


rolf fenn i just noticed that your location is space-time.

You know what's freaky? So is yours.

Delphinus
08-15-2011, 12:20 PM
Am I right to think that infra-red radiation is heat?

EDIT: Wait nvm infra-red and other types of light are produced by heat.

Fenn
08-17-2011, 09:32 AM
So how about that string theory? To this day I can't figure out what it even means.

Kodos
08-17-2011, 04:45 PM
That's okay. No one can.

Basically to make an absurdly complex theory absurdly simple, the gist of string theory is that... well.

Imagine you have a guitar or violin or other stringed musical instrument. You know how the way you pluck/twang/whatever the strings makes them make different sounds? String theory is sort of like that. The basic gist is that the universe is ultimately and really made up of one-dimensional cosmic strings and that the various particles we observe are just the strings vibrating at different frequencies, kind of like how the same string on a guitar can make different sounds.

Gedeon
08-17-2011, 06:49 PM
Meh...... im more interested in black holes........

Sylux
08-17-2011, 07:57 PM
Sounds like junk, though...

Fenn
08-18-2011, 09:25 AM
That's okay. No one can.

Basically to make an absurdly complex theory absurdly simple, the gist of string theory is that... well.

Imagine you have a guitar or violin or other stringed musical instrument. You know how the way you pluck/twang/whatever the strings makes them make different sounds? String theory is sort of like that. The basic gist is that the universe is ultimately and really made up of one-dimensional cosmic strings and that the various particles we observe are just the strings vibrating at different frequencies, kind of like how the same string on a guitar can make different sounds.

So the universe is one big groovy tune played by a cosmic hippie? Far out man...

ClockHand
08-18-2011, 11:23 AM
This band (universe) is so overrated (hipster).

Fenn
08-22-2011, 08:17 PM
Also in neuroscience, did anyone watch a program which centered around a man who had several (7 i think) concussions during his life. After the seventh, he suddenly was able to play the piano beautifully. He can't read music or play specific songs, but put him in front of a keyboard and he can play esquisite improvisational pieces. They even showed him perform. He was amazing.

However, the downside is that he MUST play often. If he doesn't, he gets painful headaches from what can only be described so far as music overload. He also claims that he visually sees the notes as little boxes flying past his face.

Crazy thing, the brain.

Gedeon
08-24-2011, 11:26 AM
Good thing i don't have one.

Fenn
08-24-2011, 04:43 PM
Good thing i don't have one.

Freakin robots. Get out of my thread.

ON TOPIC: I've been reading about relativity and quantam theory. According to general relativity, objects that are accelerating in space travel slower through time. So next time you're walking down the street, remember you're falling behind all the stationary objects around you in time.

inb4chaoscontrol

Gedeon
08-24-2011, 06:47 PM
I heard that too. But i think that you need to travel REALLY fast, and you should be somewhere where there is absolutely no gravity(so yeah probably space, but i thought that in galaxy space there are minuscule gravity forces).

Evil_Cake
08-24-2011, 06:56 PM
isnt more gravity supposed to make it work better

Gedeon
08-24-2011, 08:15 PM
i don't think so, im waiting for kodos to pop up and tell me that everything i said is wrong =w=

Blue_Dragon
08-30-2011, 01:35 AM
i want teleportation ability

I don't know if this dude is a total crack pot or if he's actually on to something, but I found him from a "science today" blog that was from some college. Or Science News or I don't know. Week in Science? Anywho, he's fun to watch and listen to. This is just part of a whole series of one interview:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FqLCLooayM

butternut
08-30-2011, 07:18 AM
Also in neuroscience, did anyone watch a program which centered around a man who had several (7 i think) concussions during his life. After the seventh, he suddenly was able to play the piano beautifully. He can't read music or play specific songs, but put him in front of a keyboard and he can play esquisite improvisational pieces. They even showed him perform. He was amazing.

However, the downside is that he MUST play often. If he doesn't, he gets painful headaches from what can only be described so far as music overload. He also claims that he visually sees the notes as little boxes flying past his face.

Crazy thing, the brain.

Check out Synesthesia. I don't know about it myself, i read about it a long time ago on wiki, but it's what you described. Mixed senses - like seeing music, tasting alphabets/numbers/pictures, or hearing food. I found it pretty interesting and freaky, and awesome! This post reminded me of it, so check it out for more details.

tagYURIT
08-30-2011, 07:33 AM
The answer to that depends if there are new Einsteins. . Newtons. .or Galileis born and living in this world today . .^^

Harvester_Of_Sorrow
08-30-2011, 11:58 AM
^ Well, its more that you would need people who have a different mindset to those great people in order to come up theories that contadict them, or rather improve upon them and give more explanitory power. Einstein proved Newton wrong on many of Newtons points about gravity and motion, one of which being that Newton thought you could travel faster than the speed of light. Einstein showed through equation that you can't, and the large hydron collider in Switzerland proved this. For those who don't know, its basically the more energy that is used to propell an object towards the speed of light, the more of that energy turns to mass. Thats it in a nutshell, anyway.

I remember telling my girlfriend that, and she said 'So, the faster I run, the fatter I get?'

'...Oh fuck.'

Fenn
08-30-2011, 01:49 PM
Check out Synesthesia. I don't know about it myself, i read about it a long time ago on wiki, but it's what you described. Mixed senses - like seeing music, tasting alphabets/numbers/pictures, or hearing food. I found it pretty interesting and freaky, and awesome! This post reminded me of it, so check it out for more details.

Not surprisingly, they talked all about that in the episode. There are people who, when reading, see letters in color, even if they are actually black. And each letter always has the same color.

Gedeon
08-30-2011, 10:23 PM
Mchio Kakku is THA MAN!!! But he (at least for me) didn't get the right idea for the teleportation. He is a theorist(and some other smarty-pantsy things) and he thought of using the star trek's teleporters. He thought of using a ultra-super-duper-mega-giga-tera-computer that could load up information of every and each atom of the person that wants to be teleported to the pint where they want to be teleported. But there was one major flaw. In the end he wouldn't teleport people he would have just cloned them somewhere far away. And then what to do with either the copy or original. Hes a funny guy.

Delphinus
08-31-2011, 06:50 AM
If materialism is true, which it probably is, that sort of teleportation would mean you wouldn't be teleported. You'd be replaced by a being with exactly the same body and mind as you, but you would die.

Fenn
08-31-2011, 10:21 AM
If materialism is true, which it probably is, that sort of teleportation would mean you wouldn't be teleported. You'd be replaced by a being with exactly the same body and mind as you, but you would die.

Which would still be freakin awesome.

Evil_Cake
08-31-2011, 12:17 PM
EH?

Gedeon
08-31-2011, 02:00 PM
If materialism is true, which it probably is, that sort of teleportation would mean you wouldn't be teleported. You'd be replaced by a being with exactly the same body and mind as you, but you would die.

as i pointed out......ok i admit i forgot the die part.

GunZet
09-01-2011, 05:11 PM
Wouldn't you still technically be alive if that replacement being had the exact same everything as you...even memories and habits?

Evil_Cake
09-01-2011, 05:35 PM
nope

Kodos
09-01-2011, 06:00 PM
That question is impossible to answer without getting into an involved and problematic question about identity and personhood.

The average age of the cells in your body is 10 years. There is literally nothing in your body today that was there 15 years ago. Are you the same person you were 15 years ago?

Gedeon
09-01-2011, 06:04 PM
The famous debate over personalty and what you'r made of.

GunZet
09-01-2011, 06:04 PM
Hmm...yea I see what you mean there.
On that last question. To a certain degree. Mentally, you could actually still be that same person from 15 years ago. It's all in a person's experiences.
Actually I'm already confused, I'll just stop there.

Kodos
09-01-2011, 06:09 PM
Hmm...yea I see what you mean there.
On that last question. To a certain degree. Mentally, you could actually still be that same person from 15 years ago. It's all in a person's experiences.
Actually I'm already confused, I'll just stop there.
If it's all in experiences, then is a computer or other person who has all your memories and experiences you? Why or why not?

Hence my point. Questions about teleportation/cloning are problematic because identity itself is very problematic. I have my own answer for questions about personhood and identity, but that is philosophy, not science.

GunZet
09-01-2011, 06:12 PM
There'll never be a direct answer.

Kodos
09-01-2011, 06:13 PM
Uh... there can be, sure. Throwing up your arms and proclaiming a question is unanswerable without providing reasons why it is fundamentally or practically unanswerable is just intellectual laziness and inexcusable.

GunZet
09-01-2011, 06:19 PM
I like the part where I don't have to debate it. Therefore I'll just go watch some Star Trek and get my fill. But yea, I still don't think there will ever be a direct answer to that particular subject. Some things actually are just completely unasnwerable. Then again maybe theres's some alien chemical-ah fuck it.

Kodos
09-01-2011, 06:26 PM
Name some unanswerable things and why they are unanswerable. There are a few, but I have a feeling the ones you will name are less to do with genuine unanswerable questions and more to do with intellectual laziness.

Also: Continuity. There is a constant flow of electrochemical impulses along the nervous system and a continuity of cells since all your cells are not replaced at once. Thus there is a certain continuity of neurological activity and of cell composition present in a human being that can provide a certain indicator of distinctness and identity that would not be conserved if a person were to be suddenly completely destroyed and reconstituted, or if their memories and experiences were completely copied into a new body.

There. Boy, that sure was unanswerable!

GunZet
09-01-2011, 06:30 PM
You proved me out there, bruh.

Fenn
09-01-2011, 09:57 PM
Name some unanswerable things and why they are unanswerable. There are a few, but I have a feeling the ones you will name are less to do with genuine unanswerable questions and more to do with intellectual laziness.

Also: Continuity. There is a constant flow of electrochemical impulses along the nervous system and a continuity of cells since all your cells are not replaced at once. Thus there is a certain continuity of neurological activity and of cell composition present in a human being that can provide a certain indicator of distinctness and identity that would not be conserved if a person were to be suddenly completely destroyed and reconstituted, or if their memories and experiences were completely copied into a new body.

There. Boy, that sure was unanswerable!

What about people who "die" and come back to life? Like their heart stops, then their brain for a split second, then they are resucitated

Wait, am I answering my own question?

Kodos
09-01-2011, 10:03 PM
I agree that's problematic, although I'm also unaware of the biology behind it. Does *all* brain activity truly stop? If I am not mistaken there is enough 'juice' so to speak leftover in the body that the brain can continue to function - albeit not necessarily on a conscious level - for a while after death. I believe it takes a while for all the electrochemical activity to stop.

And assuming that I'm wrong and it does stop, that might be a problem for my idea of identity. However I have two possible responses you can pick from to that:
1. Dying and coming back is so traumatic that if anything could qualify as shattering your identity and forging a new one, I daresay this is it.
2. While the software may momentarily stop running and continuity there is lost, the hardware of your body is unchanged. It's still largely the same cells and tissues before and after. So some form of continuity is preserved.

ClockHand
09-01-2011, 10:42 PM
What if you add organ's memory?

I don't know, but teletransportation as mass destruction, it's obviously dying in the self process.

Fenn
09-02-2011, 09:27 AM
I agree that's problematic, although I'm also unaware of the biology behind it. Does *all* brain activity truly stop? If I am not mistaken there is enough 'juice' so to speak leftover in the body that the brain can continue to function - albeit not necessarily on a conscious level - for a while after death. I believe it takes a while for all the electrochemical activity to stop.

And assuming that I'm wrong and it does stop, that might be a problem for my idea of identity. However I have two possible responses you can pick from to that:
1. Dying and coming back is so traumatic that if anything could qualify as shattering your identity and forging a new one, I daresay this is it.
2. While the software may momentarily stop running and continuity there is lost, the hardware of your body is unchanged. It's still largely the same cells and tissues before and after. So some form of continuity is preserved.

1 makes sense.

2 I'll reply to rather absurdly but since we're already deep in crazy hypothesis why not? What if the software stopped running and THEN was teleported?

Gedeon
09-02-2011, 10:18 AM
Uh... there can be, sure. Throwing up your arms and proclaiming a question is unanswerable without providing reasons why it is fundamentally or practically unanswerable is just intellectual laziness and inexcusable.

OH how o hate when he says so many long words in one sentence.

Kodos
09-02-2011, 07:09 PM
1 makes sense.

2 I'll reply to rather absurdly but since we're already deep in crazy hypothesis why not? What if the software stopped running and THEN was teleported?
The "software" is the mind, which is produced by the hardware - by the interplay of electrochemical impulses in your nervous system. Since teleportation would involve destroying the hardware and then re-assembling it perfectly, there would be no continuity. My argument for identity is that identity arises from continuity. In that example there is no continuity between the you that entered the teleporter and the clone that emerged on the other end.

Dustycher
09-04-2011, 10:16 AM
The whole teleportation hypothesis is interesting. Assuming that the teleporter is capable of flawlessly de-constructing and reconstructing a total of atoms, which is of course moved in between, we are given the same brain structure as before, which also is responsible for memory and indentity. I see no problem with continuity.

CypressDahlia
09-04-2011, 10:33 AM
Brains don't stop until the cells start dying. The cells don't start dying until Oxygen supply is cut off for extended periods. Well, assuming it's not damage caused by trauma or some other kind of accident. Identity is a little more abstract than genetics and memories, IMO. It's defined by consciousness. It's the attachment of your mind and senses to your physical being. You are the only one who can feel it when you get hit. You are the only one who can decipher the thoughts in your head. You are the only one who can see exactly what you are seeing. So even if there is an exact clone of you, unless it has your conscience, then it's not you.

Delphinus
09-04-2011, 11:12 AM
It's the attachment of your mind and senses to your physical being.

This would imply a form of Cartesian Dualism. How do you propose to deal with the various classical problems of philosophy of the mind, such as the interaction between mind and body? In addition, do you reject materialism, and if so, based on what reasoning or evidence? Do you believe in the existence of a soul?

Or are you arguing that the continuity of a consciousness constitutes its identity and singularity? Because if so, that would just mean you were agreeing with Kodos to an extent.

CypressDahlia
09-04-2011, 06:26 PM
I don't believe in the seance of "souls", but I do believe in a conscience. And this conscience is something that does not exist physically but, rather, figuratively. Just as software on a computer does not exist in a physical state beyond where the memory is stored. This webpage we're viewing, essentially, does not exist in a physical realm, but in a realm of data. I believe our conscience is a similar entity. Our bodies are simply where the memory is stored, but the interface is what determines who we are.

And I would have to ask what you mean by "continuity of a conscience" to avoid some misunderstanding. To put it simply, though, the ability to experience things as a physical entity through the interface of your conscience creates your identity. Because, as far as I'm concerned, only you yourself can do that and nobody else. It's a merger between your physiology and psychology.

Gedeon
09-05-2011, 03:53 PM
^i would agree with cypes idea of interface and conciseness.

Fenn
09-07-2011, 05:13 PM
What is your favorite scientific field or area? What do you enjoy reading about the most when it comes to science?

Gedeon
09-07-2011, 05:52 PM
Black holes and super-novas

GunZet
09-07-2011, 05:55 PM
That ever expanding thing known as space. Gives my head a funny feeling.

ClockHand
09-07-2011, 05:58 PM
Technology and Social Impact (probably Internet).

What can I say, I love archeology and technology is almost as a synonymous.

digitek
09-08-2011, 06:00 AM
Space amazes me to infinite extents, but medical science is something I really find fascinating. Chemical reactions, biophysics, and how science affects our medical state. It's pretty insane when you get down to it.

Delphinus
09-08-2011, 10:47 AM
On the grand scale? Bio-electronic interfacing. Like that computer they built using cells from a rat's brain or prosthetics. Also artificial intelligence and genetic algorithms.

On the hobbyist scale (i.e. stuff that I can do)? Logic gates, electric engineering, and things that go boom.

Ozzaharwood
09-09-2011, 05:42 PM
I don't believe in the seance of "souls", but I do believe in a conscience. And this conscience is something that does not exist physically but, rather, figuratively. Just as software on a computer does not exist in a physical state beyond where the memory is stored. This webpage we're viewing, essentially, does not exist in a physical realm, but in a realm of data. I believe our conscience is a similar entity. Our bodies are simply where the memory is stored, but the interface is what determines who we are.

And I would have to ask what you mean by "continuity of a conscience" to avoid some misunderstanding. To put it simply, though, the ability to experience things as a physical entity through the interface of your conscience creates your identity. Because, as far as I'm concerned, only you yourself can do that and nobody else. It's a merger between your physiology and psychology.

This reminded me of GitS. It uses a fairly similar premise.

I don't know why, but I'm really interested in social sciences—particularly Psychology and Anthropology. The theory of evolution, and how people's minds work the way they do. There are a lot of things you do subconsciously that you will probably never notice unless you know the psychology behind it.

Fenn
09-09-2011, 07:20 PM
This reminded me of GitS. It uses a fairly similar premise.

I don't know why, but I'm really interested in social sciences—particularly Psychology and Anthropology. The theory of evolution, and how people's minds work the way they do. There are a lot of things you do subconsciously that you will probably never notice unless you know the psychology behind it.

I LOVE Psych. And Neuroscience. And Cognitive science.

Personally I think Astronomy, Physics, and Psychology are the "central" sciences. Everything that occurs in this world is the culmination of these three things: What it is, how it works, and how we perceive it. Hence my love for all three of them.

Evil_Cake
09-09-2011, 07:48 PM
ZZzzZZzZzz

Kodos
09-09-2011, 08:05 PM
I LOVE Psych. And Neuroscience. And Cognitive science.

Personally I think Astronomy, Physics, and Psychology are the "central" sciences. Everything that occurs in this world is the culmination of these three things: What it is, how it works, and how we perceive it. Hence my love for all three of them.
All science is ultimately applied physics. Psychology is heavily affected by biology. Biology is just chemistry. Chemistry is just physics.

Fenn
09-09-2011, 08:07 PM
All science is ultimately applied physics. Psychology is heavily affected by biology. Biology is just chemistry. Chemistry is just physics.

:P

Yeah but Psych and Astronomy are still more central than, say, mechanical engineering or medical science.

ClockHand
09-09-2011, 08:35 PM
:P

Yeah but Psych and Astronomy are still more central than, say, mechanical engineering or medical science.

Why? What does make them "Central"?

I don't know, but in social science you can see theory of system and even chaos theory applicate on social behaviors.

Gedeon
09-09-2011, 09:13 PM
oh good lord you really want to debate with some one don't you Clock, i can expect it from Kodos, but you Clock............sigh......

ClockHand
09-09-2011, 09:24 PM
oh good lord you really want to debate with some one don't you Clock, i can expect it from Kodos, but you Clock............sigh......

:cat_shy:

Gedeon
09-09-2011, 09:58 PM
^ok i admit i loled at that.

Fenn
09-10-2011, 11:16 AM
Why? What does make them "Central"?

I don't know, but in social science you can see theory of system and even chaos theory applicate on social behaviors.

Exactly You see the application of these theories. I'm not sure what science those specific theories apply to, but I'd guess they fall somewhere around physics or math.

And social science is applied psychology essentially, on a broader scale.


oh good lord you really want to debate with some one don't you Clock, i can expect it from Kodos, but you Clock............sigh......

Dude I love debating with Clock, he's got interesting perspectives.

And he's more reliable and prompt than Kodos or even Delph sometimes.

Dustycher
09-10-2011, 01:27 PM
Ah yes, genetic algorithms are very interesting, and generally anything regarding artificial intelligence. I am also interested in biology.

Delphinus
09-22-2011, 03:53 PM
Cross-posting this both in Psalm and here. (http://darryl-cunningham.blogspot.com/2011/09/science-denial.html)

Fenn
09-22-2011, 10:46 PM
Cross-posting this both in Psalm and here. (http://darryl-cunningham.blogspot.com/2011/09/science-denial.html)

It's essentially very accurate. The slightest reason to completely distrust science, and people take it, dispite ignoring loads of evidence against superstition, religion, etc.

However, it's never been the scientific method I've been distruftful of. It's the people performing the science. You don't have to be moral to be a scientist. At all. While I don't show them the amount of distrust I show politicians and the media, I still have great reservations on many scientific topic because of the immense human factor involved. Scientists need and want money, and fame, and success, just like the rest of us.

Gedeon
09-24-2011, 10:14 AM
THEY HAVE FOUND PARTICLES FASTER THEN LIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GunZet
09-24-2011, 10:30 AM
I don't even.

Kodos
09-24-2011, 11:11 AM
No they haven't.

Fenn
09-24-2011, 11:33 AM
THEY HAVE FOUND PARTICLES FASTER THEN LIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

According to...I think its general relativity, as objects move faster through space they move slower through time. Light speed is the maximum speed through space anthing can travel, because it does not travel through time. The particles you are talking about would be traveling backwards through time O_O

Gedeon
09-24-2011, 02:38 PM
Nope!!! heard it on the new's and in the papers this morning. They only travel a few(not sure how many) nano-seconds faster then light!!! Im gonna give you guys the address and then you Google translate the written content of the page ok!? AND SEE FOR YOURSELF :Dhttp://www.blic.rs/Slobodno-vreme/Vesti/278818/Albert-Ajnstajn-mozda-nije-bio-u-pravu

Fenn
09-24-2011, 06:31 PM
Google translate is not translating.

Gedeon
09-24-2011, 07:47 PM
-.- ...............Ok then how about this one. ITs on English but i didn't read it trough and trough, so it might have either some bonuses or somethings that don't add up. http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/22/us-science-light-idUSTRE78L4FH20110922 And the second one http://news.yahoo.com/strange-particles-may-travel-faster-light-breaking-laws-192010201.html

Kodos
09-24-2011, 08:39 PM
Yes. It's very terrible and sensationalist science reporting - par for the course. They discovered what may or may not have been particles going faster than light. Shit like this happens all the time. In a few months after other scientists have repeated this experiment and gathered new data, then we will know what is going on.

EDIT: Hell, it even says as much.
"Ereditato declined to speculate on what it might mean if other physicists, who will be officially informed of the discovery at a meeting in CERN on Friday, found that OPERA's measurements were correct."

GunZet
09-24-2011, 08:50 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsjDnYxJ0bo&feature=player_embedded

CypressDahlia
09-24-2011, 10:13 PM
So in our minds we see all white people as black people and vice versa.

I coulda sworn that black kid looked like Jesus.

Gedeon
09-24-2011, 10:22 PM
Yes. It's very terrible and sensationalist science reporting - par for the course. They discovered what may or may not have been particles going faster than light. Shit like this happens all the time. In a few months after other scientists have repeated this experiment and gathered new data, then we will know what is going on.

EDIT: Hell, it even says as much.
"Ereditato declined to speculate on what it might mean if other physicists, who will be officially informed of the discovery at a meeting in CERN on Friday, found that OPERA's measurements were correct."

Well i remain a foolish positivist<--- i hope i spelled it right! It would be nice to discover something that could shake up one of the foundations of quantum physics in my lifespan.

Kodos
09-25-2011, 12:21 AM
We've discovered a lot of crap that shook up physics in your life time.

Outcast
09-25-2011, 12:34 AM
Out of curiosity... Examples?

ClockHand
09-25-2011, 12:38 AM
Well i remain a foolish positivist<--- i hope i spelled it right! It would be nice to discover something that could shake up one of the foundations of quantum physics in my lifespan.

Never be positivist, always be Falsifiabilist (that is how I write it Popper?)

Kodos
09-25-2011, 01:36 AM
How old is Gedeon? Get me his age and I'll get you a list.

Delphinus
09-25-2011, 05:46 AM
Positivism is so modernist. Interpretivism is more sensible.

Well, using interpretivism first, then positivism, is more sensible.

Outcast
09-25-2011, 06:36 AM
How old is Gedeon? Get me his age and I'll get you a list.

Let's just go with late teens.

Kodos
09-25-2011, 07:10 AM
Let's assume he's 16.

In 1995, the year of his birth, we produced the first atom of antihydrogen.
Last year we produced cold antihydrogen and kept it around for a sixth of a second. Earlier this year we replicated that feat and kept it stable for an entire 15 minutes of study. We also produced some Antihelium-4.
Also in 1995 a speech at a meeting of string theorists united the major string theories of the time into M-Theory, or Brane Theory.
1995 also was the year of the discovery of the Top Quark, which was found to be a lot more massive than previously predicted.
In 2000 we discovered the Tau Neutrino.
In 2002 and 2004 strong evidence was produced for Sagittarius A being a supermassive black hole at the center of our galaxy.
Results from the LHC this year have ruled out the existence of the Higgs Boson with roughly 95&#37; certainty. The lack of any observed SUSY particles being produced at the LHC also is an ominous portent for the future of supersymmetry theory.

I'm sleepy and lazy and that's just some quick googling. There's more. And even more massive breakthroughs if you count the 80's and 70's which, while not in Gedeons' literal lifetime. I would say are part of "our" lifetime. At least the 80's.

Fenn
09-25-2011, 12:51 PM
Let's assume he's 16.

In 1995, the year of his birth, we produced the first atom of antihydrogen.
Last year we produced cold antihydrogen and kept it around for a sixth of a second. Earlier this year we replicated that feat and kept it stable for an entire 15 minutes of study. We also produced some Antihelium-4.
Also in 1995 a speech at a meeting of string theorists united the major string theories of the time into M-Theory, or Brane Theory.
1995 also was the year of the discovery of the Top Quark, which was found to be a lot more massive than previously predicted.
In 2000 we discovered the Tau Neutrino.
In 2002 and 2004 strong evidence was produced for Sagittarius A being a supermassive black hole at the center of our galaxy.
Results from the LHC this year have ruled out the existence of the Higgs Boson with roughly 95&#37; certainty. The lack of any observed SUSY particles being produced at the LHC also is an ominous portent for the future of supersymmetry theory.

I'm sleepy and lazy and that's just some quick googling. There's more. And even more massive breakthroughs if you count the 80's and 70's which, while not in Gedeons' literal lifetime. I would say are part of "our" lifetime. At least the 80's.

Yeah, I guess they're big, but how many of them have had any impact beyond the realm of "Now we know!"

Gedeon
09-25-2011, 05:30 PM
^that. Although yeah i admit we had quite a lot of major discoveries to date from '94

Fenn
12-10-2011, 05:02 PM
Necro'ing with good purpose. Have we found the Higgs?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/dec/09/higgs-boson-hunters-lhc?newsfeed=true

Kodos
12-10-2011, 08:50 PM
Shit just got real.

jubeh
12-10-2011, 11:16 PM
Why did I read the comments of that article ughhh

Evil_Cake
12-10-2011, 11:56 PM
lol

Fenn
12-11-2011, 11:32 AM
Fine, so it was an excuse to revive the thread, but you can't say it's nothing.

BozeSG
12-14-2011, 06:07 AM
yay, it exists... now we just have to wait another few more years...

Kodos
12-14-2011, 11:10 AM
We don't know it exists yet.

Evil_Cake
12-14-2011, 11:17 AM
but I can feel it

Kodos
12-14-2011, 11:24 AM
no u can't

Evil_Cake
12-14-2011, 11:30 AM
u just dont understand

BozeSG
12-14-2011, 04:57 PM
we didn't? really? i hadn't seen the conference myself i just heard it from someone, I WAS DECEIVED!!! NOOOO!!!!!!

GunZet
12-14-2011, 05:06 PM
They've only found a 'glimpse' of it so to speak. They still don't completely have it, otherwise everyone would be singing drunken songs.