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 Post subject: Re: Need HELPFUL critiques.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:41 am 
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Error 404 wrote:
Well, for the new people this is the most wise advice someone can gave you:
"never listen what Blackmage says"

Trust me, even if he try to gave you some advice or something, most of his words are not made to be readed by people.

Don't waste your time bothering with clocks post, he has proven more then once he has no idea what he is talking about and in a matter like this he definitely don't. A average person wouldve made a decent counter argument but as obvious all he can do is try to insult.

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 Post subject: Re: Need HELPFUL critiques.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:20 pm 
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You guys he said to stop flaming.

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 Post subject: Re: Need HELPFUL critiques.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 2:03 pm 
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Hmmm.. you want to draw better? Well let me give you some of my advice. Truly I wouldn't tell someone to start drawing by watching manga, or even dealing with manga in general. Manga is taking pregained knowledge of the human anatomy and then distorting it with style and design. You can't manipulate something you have no knowledge of, that's the truth of it. For a beginner artist, you shouldn't even be drawing the human form.. but rather working with simple objects and concentrating more on theory and technique. In every art class I have taken throughout my lifetime, the human figure has always been the last thing we covered. Why is this? It's because organic subject matter is always going to be more complicated than say, human made objects that produce symmetry. There are so many things you have to understand when we are talking about learning to draw. Line, shadow, composition, contrast, form, color theory, perspective and probably a handfull of theories I haven't discovered yet. Right now, based on your skill level, you need to concentrate on being able to draw what you see. Still lifes are a great way to do this, and is quite easy when using the "sighting" method. Where you extend your arm at full length and use your thumb or pencil to make measurements of proportion and angle. This is where artists need to start. It grounds the basis of undestanding how to replicate a 3 dimensional object on a 2 dimensional plane. This happens by combining all the basic elements of a drawing. Once you understand this concept, and put it in practice with success, then you can move on to studying the human body from life. Using gestures is probably the best way to go about in the learning process. I always start my drawings with a few gestures of the subject matter in order to get the feel of how the object or person sits, and what it/they are doing. You said you want to learn to ddraw manga AND realistic drawings. Realism comes before manga, because of what I described in the beginning of this post.

Truly Blackmage, is on the right track, trying to get him/her to start at the basics.. he just seems to be a little less diplomatic about it. The truth is, these techniques and ideas he's pushing have been around since the rennaciance days, and are traditional in pretty much every school around the world... that being the theories. Technique comes with individualism to fit your psychological needs. It's like telling someone to accomplish the task, but letting them find their own way.

On the flip side, some people can simply draw manga from watching anime or reading manga. I really don't know how this process works, but it works for some people, which is fine if all you want to draw is manga. But in my opinion, the world is much more interesting when not simplified to the most basic forms, coloring, and detail. And manga is useful when you want to tell a story.. this is what it is for, not for creating amazing works of art. For that, we go back to traditional concepts and theories.

Anyway, that's my two cents.. sorry if anyone disagrees.

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Last edited by Egoslip on Fri Nov 26, 2010 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Need HELPFUL critiques.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 2:06 pm 
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I don't disagree :) I thought he wanted to start with manga it seems nobody likes my suggestion but I don't mind cause they're right

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 Post subject: Re: Need HELPFUL critiques.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 2:10 pm 
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narutofox180 wrote:
I don't disagree :) I thought he wanted to start with manga it seems nobody likes my suggestion but I don't mind cause they're right

I go back to anatomy and now I'm hearing to start with shapes :/ obviously I need to figure the very first thing to start drawing. I always gain something when I read other peoples critiques

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 Post subject: Re: Need HELPFUL critiques.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 2:13 pm 
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Well the thing is, naruto, everyone want's to start with manga, (who enjoy manga anyway), but it simply isn't the starting place for a more developed and diverse artist. I mean.. you can't skip a step when building a house, if you built the walls and roof without the foundation, your house would fall apart fairly quickly.

make sense?

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 Post subject: Re: Need HELPFUL critiques.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 2:23 pm 
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narutofox180 wrote:
narutofox180 wrote:
I don't disagree :) I thought he wanted to start with manga it seems nobody likes my suggestion but I don't mind cause they're right

I go back to anatomy and now I'm hearing to start with shapes :/ obviously I need to figure the very first thing to start drawing. I always gain something when I read other peoples critiques

The human form is shapes, these shapes bend, twist around, over, under, and into each other.thus we practice shapes before we even get into worrying about anatomy and drawing the human body. Can you draw a square on a flat space, then rotate the shot showing the square in a deep space view? Can you manipulate and control ever piece of the squares form softening the edges or subtracting/adding pieces to it/from it with just a penciel and eraser. I was thinking about writing a tutorial on thus stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: Need HELPFUL critiques.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 2:37 pm 
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Hey, that's exactly right Mage.. and We're not saying draw ONLY basic shapes and still lifes, but don't ignore them either... look at these boring types of artwork as a way to learn about the more exciting stuff.. art is truly hard work.. it takes patience, understanding, and an open mind. Most of all it takes practice...

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 Post subject: Re: Need HELPFUL critiques.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 3:22 pm 
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Egoslip wrote:
Hey, that's exactly right Mage.. and We're not saying draw ONLY basic shapes and still lifes, but don't ignore them either... look at these boring types of artwork as a way to learn about the more exciting stuff.. art is truly hard work.. it takes patience, understanding, and an open mind. Most of all it takes practice...

Of course, and don't think I didn't see that slip up when you put Error 404 name where mine should've been mister! lol Anyways this leads to why I hate most tutorials, no tutorial explained that to me, it took my instructor Donivan Howard (ive posted his work on the inspiration page, don't tell him I did XD) to teach me this, he also teaching me into the world of classical realism and illustration which is the world I want to be in. Some of the books I have also shows this (Dynamic hands, dynamic anatomy, Sketching people, and so on), but as I said a book and tutorial can only go so far.

Also most important thing any artist should know and understand is you get out of what you put into it.

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 Post subject: Re: Need HELPFUL critiques.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 3:46 pm 
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Blackmage wrote:
Egoslip wrote:
Hey, that's exactly right Mage.. and We're not saying draw ONLY basic shapes and still lifes, but don't ignore them either... look at these boring types of artwork as a way to learn about the more exciting stuff.. art is truly hard work.. it takes patience, understanding, and an open mind. Most of all it takes practice...

Of course, and don't think I didn't see that slip up when you put Error 404 name where mine should've been mister! lol Anyways this leads to why I hate most tutorials, no tutorial explained that to me, it took my instructor Donivan Howard (ive posted his work on the inspiration page, don't tell him I did XD) to teach me this, he also teaching me into the world of classical realism and illustration which is the world I want to be in. Some of the books I have also shows this (Dynamic hands, dynamic anatomy, Sketching people, and so on), but as I said a book and tutorial can only go so far.

Also most important thing any artist should know and understand is you get out of what you put into it.


you guys are great here :) thanks for the tips

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 Post subject: Re: Need HELPFUL critiques.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:48 pm 
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Guys, BACK ON TOPIC. I'm not trying to be offensive, but I posted this topic for you to help me. I'm pretty sure most people have their own topics. So anyone wanna give me some tips on anatomy, not in the form of a long post(I don't do reading forum posts much....gets annoying).

btw, start flaming again and I WILL report you.

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 Post subject: Re: Need HELPFUL critiques.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:20 pm 
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anatomy.

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 Post subject: Re: Need HELPFUL critiques.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:40 pm 
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Honestly guys...

Clock usually has good advice, I've got to give him that (So listen when he has something IMPORTANT to say). Blackmage, stop flaming this thread. If you have nothing useful to say go back to what you do best, whatever that is. Ego and DarmMinion had some fairly good advice, and I have to vouch for Mark Crilley. It all depends on how you develop your skill; you'll eventually have to find your own way.

Narutofox wasn't trying to be mean, she was trying to help. I have watched those people on Youtube since I started drawing, and they helped, so stop hating.

I think all I have to say is DON'T STOP. You may think you aren't getting anywhere sometimes, but use ref pics, draw from real life, and you'll start to see improvements. Also, keep your drawings. If you keep them and look at them later, you can see how much you've improved and what you did wrong, which is VERY important. If you can't see what you are doing wrong you won't improve as fast.

I hope I helped and good luck. Sorry for bashing on Blackmage, but sometimes he doesn't learn. (and he NEEDS to)

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 Post subject: Re: Need HELPFUL critiques.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:16 am 
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Levi2251 wrote:
Guys, BACK ON TOPIC. I'm not trying to be offensive, but I posted this topic for you to help me. I'm pretty sure most people have their own topics. So anyone wanna give me some tips on anatomy, not in the form of a long post(I don't do reading forum posts much....gets annoying).

btw, start flaming again and I WILL report you.


Dude, everything we've been posting has been advice in one form or another.. anatomy advice? Draw naked people from life... or from photo reference. Do gestures of people. Don't know what a gesture is? Google it... apparently reading too much is against your helping criteria lol..

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 Post subject: Re: Need HELPFUL critiques.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:26 am 
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ozzaharwood wrote:
Honestly guys...

Clock usually has good advice, I've got to give him that (So listen when he has something IMPORTANT to say). Blackmage, stop flaming this thread. If you have nothing useful to say go back to what you do best, whatever that

I think you need to learn about what you yell. Only two people has given any really useful advice and that was me and ego. I just don't sugar coat it, while you are targeting go after cloak who obviously insulted me without me saying nothing to bring him into it.

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